Is Vanilla Marriage Draining Your Soul?

In this episode, we're gonna talk about the quiet ways relationships die.

It's not always cheating, abuse, or betrayal that ends relationships.

Sometimes it's boredom, avoidance, and pretending everything's fine.

This episode is about the normal looking relationships falling apart behind closed doors, slowly, quietly, and often with no one noticing.

Welcome to Con Out Swinging, a raw.

Real look at modern relationships.

I'm Dave Arena.

And I'm Victoria Arena.

We've been together nearly 30 years, married over 24, and swinging for more.

We're starting this podcast now because for too long, fear kept us from living authentically, from being open about who we are and what our relationship actually looks like.

Maybe this is our modern day Scarlet.

Letter, but we're here to be both the example and the invitation to help others own their desires and question the scripts we've all been handed.

What's broken in today's relationships?

Is monogamy even natural for humans?

And could the secret keep to a relationship that doesn't drain your soul be owning other people?

This show explores how love, sex, and identity often buckle under the weight of societal expectations, especially monogamy.

Subscribe to Coming Out Swinging, the podcast that redefines couple goals straight from the OGs.

Okay, so today we're going to be talking about those relationships that are quietly dying.

So the ones that we look at and we're just like, I guess it's the ones that we think.

I would not be surprised when they announced their divorce.

And some of them, other people might be surprised at because they paint the picture.

They paint such a pretty picture on Facebook.

But, you know, vanilla problems.

Sometimes it's not, though, Sometimes it's not painting a pretty picture.

Because we've known couples that have actually come out and admitted stuff to us.

Like, we know one couple, they weren't.

They said they hadn't had sex in a year and they were only married for what, like, less than two years?

Two years.

Like, how does that even fucking happen?

Like, what?

Seriously?

I don't know.

She got the rage.

I mean, what do you think that is?

Because, like, if you told me, if you told me a 20 year, like, us, like, we've been not us, because obviously.

But if.

If you said someone was married for like 20 or 30 years, like, I could kind of get that.

Like, okay, like, yeah, things just, like, petered out.

But like, after a year or two, like, you're in the honeymoon phase, right?

Yeah, I don't know.

I. I can't really answer that.

You can't even say that from a.

You can't Even I always think this is horrible.

I always think that's a female issue, which.

Absolutely.

It is horrible because you don't know that.

You don't know that.

But I always think, like, what guy is getting married?

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say that because I guess guys lose interest too.

But like.

Well, you would think from a female.

I guess what I'm trying to ask.

Is from a female perspective picture, though, two years in, it might be like baby making time.

And so if it's always planned or if she's always.

How are you making babies if you're not have.

What I'm saying is he might not be into that, so he's like, putting it off.

That's why I'm.

I'm trying to make this on the girl.

Like, the guy's not interested because he's always like, you know, she's checking her temperature or something.

I don't know.

No, you're right.

It could be anything.

That they just stop having sex because they don't want to schedule it.

Or.

And this is even more horrible, but we know this is reality.

Is that some guys, like, say after the baby or during the baby, like, they lose some of that magical.

Like they lose attraction.

Yeah.

Because of.

Because now she's wearing sweatpants every day.

Right.

Or maybe she didn't lose a little bit of the pregnancy weight or what.

Yeah.

That's so sad though.

But we've heard that.

We've literally heard that.

Have we not?

We have.

We've heard.

We've actually had people say that.

That's why we have friends, that their spouse told them that.

Which is.

Just Blows my mind that you would.

Yeah, I want to smack him.

It blows my mind that you would even think that.

Or like, I've never thought that.

And she's hot.

And we've gone through three pregnancies.

We've both gone through crazy weight gains and losses just outside of pregnancy.

Both of us.

Right.

And I never once lost any attraction or.

But even if you thought that, like, to say it out loud is.

I mean, it could just be the old factor of it just gets mundane and they're just not into it anymore after one or two years.

Yeah.

Cause maybe they were doing it like rabbits before they got even married.

Come on.

If it's just going through the motions and it's not exciting.

Think about it.

Okay, well, you're talking my language.

Because that's our whole thing is like making things exciting.

Exciting.

Right.

Like, so if it's just.

She's just gonna lay there or he's just gonna lay there and she's gotta do all the work.

Either way, it can become just mundane.

I don't know.

That's.

I mean, but isn't that a huge red flag?

Like, that early on?

Like, that early.

Of course you're in trouble.

Yeah, big S. Red flag.

And that's what we're talking like.

We're not talking about, like.

I mean, sometimes it may be the case, but we're typically not talking about, like, cheating or explosive fighting.

It's just like a complete loss of physical connection, like, right off the bat.

But, I mean, that's crazy to me.

I mean, what do you.

This is where our solution would be.

Like, well, maybe you should try the lifestyle.

Maybe you should try swinging to get that spark back.

Right?

It would be hot.

Like, imagine.

I like to tell people that a lot.

Like, I'm like, if they.

What's wrong with just going in, like, watching it one night?

Just go, watch.

But we did that episode about that, right?

Yeah.

Where it's like, if you're gonna go.

Home and fuck like rabbits, it's gonna be great, right?

Because let's just say their relationship was okay otherwise and they just needed that spark.

Although I still feel like.

Is there something else?

Like, why?

I don't know.

Maybe that's a question for you, especially as a woman.

Do you think that that's.

Is that a red flag in terms of, like, this relationship is in trouble because we should be still physically attracted?

Or do you think that.

Or do you think that it could just be a phase that you can get out of?

Or do you think there's something fundamentally wrong under the surface that's causing that?

Here it's just going to go down to one word again.

Communication.

And I'll tell you why.

They could dig themselves out of it in if they talked about it.

Most of these couples don't want to talk about anything.

Why?

I have no idea.

But they don't want to talk to each other about anything.

So they don't want to talk to each other about the finances.

They don't want to talk to each other about the kids.

They don't want to talk to each other about their boredom.

They don't want to talk to each other about sex.

Yeah, they don't.

It.

It becomes a huge thing.

It's always communication.

And that's got to be like a big elephant in the room all the time.

If you're not, like, like, physically intimate, especially that early on.

And I'm.

Exactly.

So you got to talk about the elephant in the room.

Exactly.

But they don't.

No.

Although some do.

Because like the reason we even brought this up is because we knew a couple that actually had no problem coming out and saying that.

And I was like, what?

Like, how does, I remember when we were in the car on the way home, I'm like, how does that even happen?

Yeah.

I just don't get it.

Especially that early on.

It just doesn't make any sense.

Right.

And then I think.

So that's one group.

But I mean, I think the other thing is then you've got.

So that's like the early on.

I think you're right.

It's like either the honeymoon phase is just gone.

Right.

They, they're settling down into normal life.

Maybe they are still in that.

Or they are in that baby mode.

Right.

But then there's like that next phase which is like, I call it like you're married to the calendar, not each other.

Like that's when like the kids are.

The kids.

Yeah.

When they're.

When you're living for your children only.

Yeah.

Why don't you, you have that joke that's like my favorite joke in your stand up.

Right.

Where it's like, we came first.

Yeah.

Like, you know, if the boat was sinking.

Right.

So if like the boat was sinking and you could only save your wife or your children, I would, it's easy for me.

I would save my wife.

And especially like, people just don't want to hear that because they're all about their kids, you know what I mean?

And they just stroke out when I say that.

And I'm like, well, you know, my wife came first.

We can make more kids.

It's true though.

It's so true.

It's so bad, but it's so true.

Well, we've always put each other first and I think that that's also healthy to show your kids.

Absolutely.

I would want my girls, you know, to pick their partner based on, you know, the loving relationship that they saw their parents have.

Yeah.

And we're not saying that life doesn't get in the way sometimes and you don't do things for your kids and you don't, you know.

But what I'm talking about is like where they just seem like they're co parents living in the same house and they're just like logistic scheduling partners and it's just, they're just on the go all the time and it's all about the kids.

The kids, the kids.

And that's like if you observe couples that are like that.

At least I feel this way.

I don't know if you feel the same way.

When I observe couples like that, I feel like it's like it feels to me like they don't even realize that life is just a blur and just flashing by.

Yeah.

And then what are you going to do when those kids are finally out of the house?

You don't even know each other anymore.

Right.

And that's something we never, we never wanted to lose that connection because it's like you are going to be by yourself again.

The kids are going to be.

We personally know one particular couple and they are calendar parents.

Like, calendar couple.

Yeah.

And like everything is built around these kids.

You know, just the, you know, anytime you say, hey, you know, whatever, it's.

It's another sporting event or it's another school choir or school actor school activity, you know?

Yeah.

Whatever.

It is like 19,000 things on their calendar a week and you're just ships.

Sailing by in the night.

Yeah.

Just like not.

I just, I really worry for that particular couple when those kids are not in the house anymore because I don't know how they're going to recover and come back to each other.

Reconnect.

Because I just feel like I don't see.

It's not that I don't see love.

It's not.

No.

I think they love each other.

Yeah.

I don't.

It's not like I don't.

I don't see.

It's more the intimacy and the connection.

Yeah.

I don't see that now.

We don't necessarily know what happens behind closed doors.

They're completely fine.

They could be freaks.

Like, who knows what they're doing?

Like, I don't know.

Right.

It's just, I just find it hard to believe just with where the energy and.

And this isn't just about.

Because we could be wrong about any one particular couple.

But you see this a lot as a.

Like people will relate to what we're talking about because you see those couples all the time where they're just on the go, on the go, all about their kids up their kids ass.

First of all, you don't need to be up your kids ass that much.

Like, let them have some independence.

But whatever.

That's a whole nother.

That's probably a whole nother podcast.

True.

But yeah, I just, I feel the same way.

Like when you see a lot of divorces happen that way where.

Yeah.

When they're empty, those are the scariest ones to me.

Yeah.

Because like they've been together for 25 years.

Years.

And then bam, they're getting divorced.

Those are sad, eerie divorces to me.

They really are.

But not.

But not.

Not surprising.

Not.

Yeah, it's not surprising when you.

If you were observing their lifestyle the whole way.

Yeah.

Because that's got to be.

Yes.

Super hard.

And you all.

We, we've had this.

We've had this discussion before, and I think it also goes back to the original the honeymoon phase couple.

Is there something fundamentally wrong before all this?

Like it.

In other words, a chicken and egg situation.

Is the living for your kids and doing all this the cause of it?

Or was there already a problem and you just threw yourself into the kids to make it.

To make it work and be like, well, this, this will distract us from us.

Good question, huh?

Yeah, that is a good question.

I mean, I can't answer that, but yeah, I don't know.

I almost always believe that there's an underlying problem first.

I almost always believe that there is something that was fundamentally wrong that caused you to go in that direction.

Because that's.

Because we never had that issue because we didn't prioritize it and we didn't have any reason to, like, go in that direction.

Yeah.

Do you get what I'm saying?

Yeah.

I mean, we're getting into some deep shit now.

Whoa.

But that's why I always say it's a red flag.

Right.

Because you didn't really agree as much with the honeymoon phase situation because you're like, yeah, things can just happen and whatever.

But I always look at it like, well, how do you even get to that point?

What's going on there?

Maybe it's just because we never had those issues.

Yeah.

Maybe it's because we didn't do shit with our kids.

Yeah.

I feel bad about that.

Then you have those people, like, they're just.

I think they're just bored with each other.

I mean, personally, they don't.

Might not know they're bored with each other, but they literally, like, they could be in the same room and not say two words to each other.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, and, and try and justify it.

We know a couple like that.

Yeah, it's.

I mean, I think you just need to prioritize the relationship however you need to.

I know it sounds corny, but, like having those date nights and doing things outside of the day to day stuff in the kids, I think it.

Yeah, I know it sounds corner, like, oh, we do a date night.

But I mean, you know, we've always done that.

We've always Prioritized each other first and then hope that that trickles down to the kids as lessons.

And it's not like we're.

I don't want to say it's not like we neglected the kids.

No, our kids had a great freaking life.

Don't get me wrong.

Yeah.

I'm just saying in general, you know.

And it's like you said too, like it's scary when you hear.

Not scary, but I mean you use the word scary.

I think it's always sad when you here the 25 year marriage ending.

But I think it's also because we internalize that to our own relationship.

So we think, man, I couldn't.

I think the scary part is you internalize it and think, man, is there, is there something that I'm not seeing here that I don't know that all of a sudden 20.

Everything can seem happy for 25 years and then it's.

But I just don't believe.

Yes, there might be some situations like that, but I really do think it's a slow erosion.

I think there's signs and there's.

There's things like we're talking about that if you really look back on it, you're like, not so surprising.

Like sometimes we hear it with certain couples and we are surprised at first, but probably not if you examine their everyday life.

Exactly.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, totally.

You know, and I think a close.

I was going to say close cousin, but maybe not to the.

Maybe they're.

I don't know, you probably would think they're totally different situations.

Is the people that have the whole illusion of being perfect.

Especially now that we have social media.

You see it all the time.

Yeah.

Like.

Well, I would say that that's a majority of the people on social media.

I struggle with this one because.

We.

Do put up some corny or like when it's our anniversary.

But I feel like A, we don't do it as much as we used to and B, it usually is here and there like either an anniversary or when I'm thinking about something or a memory comes up or a hot picture of me.

Yeah.

But I, I mean, I guess there's two different things we're talking about here.

Right.

One of them is the perfect like, oh, we're gonna put up the family pictures and make it look like everything's rosy.

Not that there's anything people that do it to where it's like nauseating and then.

And then there's that go way overboard with like the love quotes and the.

Oh, you're my world.

And I think we even talked about that one story earlier.

Yeah, he was weirdo.

But you see people do that all the time where it's like you can sniff out the authenticity.

Like you could.

You could sniff out the ones that.

Are like, oh, they are cute together.

Yeah.

Like I can, I can.

I'm babbling here because I'm struggling.

I'm struggling with the fact that sometimes it's okay and sometimes it's not.

And you just need to know the people.

So like, if you saw certain couples that we love as couples.

Yeah.

Do that same behavior, you'd be like, oh, they are like the greatest.

They're so cute.

Right.

And then the, the other people do.

Could do the same exact thing.

Right.

Why are you hatering on those people?

Because you just know those people are annoying and they're full of.

Because that's not really how it is.

That's right.

You get what I'm saying?

So like, it's like, I'm not stupid.

I'm not really like that.

Right.

So that's why I'm struggling.

Because it's not that all of it's bad because some people may listen to this and be like, well, we do that.

We post stuff about each and it's like, well, if you're not one of the annoying full of people, then you're fine.

Like there's some people that were just.

Like, it's just pretend.

It's just for show.

Like inspirational cat.

It's so funny because I, in my head I pictured the oh, they are really cute together couple.

And then when you said that I was like, like, no, yeah, you.

I know that couple.

I just don't want there to be any.

I just want to be clear that there are just occasion.

There are people that can.

If you're authentic about it, it shows.

And if you're not, it'll shows.

Peep right through.

Yeah.

So I don't know, I guess to wrap it up, it's not always drama.

Right?

It's not always.

It's not always these like.

There's been plenty of couples where we're like, that was not surprising at all that they broke up after one year or after 10 years.

Yeah.

It's so amazing to me to sit here and go, the ones that are like the seven year itch couples that.

Yeah.

That end it.

Like that's.

It's usually never surprising.

Right.

Kind of saw come in, you know, whatever else.

The ones that are the 25 year ones, technically not surprising, but really super sad because you Just felt like they wanted to make it work.

We, you know, we wanted it to work for them.

Or maybe, you know, or you are surprised after 25 years that it was them.

One or the other.

It's just, you know, it's quite telling, I guess you could say.

Yeah.

And I.

Based on the amount of years.

And like I said, if you look.

If you really look at those people that you're kind of surprised by, maybe it's not so surprising.

But the point is it's not always those very volatile, like.

Yep.

Saw that coming from a mile away.

Sometimes it is.

It is.

You can see it.

But it's still kind of surprising because it's that slow burn.

It's that slow decay over time.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And that's what we're talking.

Talking about.

Like, they aren't even necessarily toxic couples.

They're just like neglected or disconnected or just emotionally not there.

Yeah.

And it's.

I guess we'll challenge the audience.

Right.

Like we were just saying, are you one of those annoying people?

But no, like, are you truly connected?

Are you addressing problems or just keeping up appearances?

Like you like to say the communicate.

Like, are you communicating about this stuff?

And I think our biggest one, right, is are you.

When we see this all the time, like, are you just roommates or are you actually lovers?

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I love flat out.

I didn't even get that word lovers.

Lovers just gives me.

And I laugh because I laugh because it reminds me of that.

It sounds icky when you say it.

It reminds me of that sketch with the lovers.

Yeah, with.

It's my funny.

It's the funniest.

One of my favorites with Rachel Dratch and Will Ferrell in the hot tub.

Or the one they had Jimmy on.

Yeah, Barrymore, that was a great.

Anyhow, we're off on a tangent, but that's what I. I'm not gonna lie.

I tripped up on love.

You say love?

Yes, love.

Are you love?

It just sounds.

There you go.

Are you just being roommates and not, you know, doing the thing?

Not connecting.

Exactly.

We'll see you next time.

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We'd love to help you redefine couple goals through Non Monogamy without the Mess.

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We'll see you next time.