We Broke All Our Lifestyle Rules

In today's episode, we're sharing how our lifestyle rules started super strict and how almost all of them evolved or disappeared over time.

We'll talk about how our mentor couple helped us rethink what we were looking.

For, what happened when Vic had a panic attack at our second ever encounter.

Why clubs became our favorite way to.

Play, how we started exploring more kinks and scenarios, and the wild story of.

Dave's solo round two after Club Labyrinth.

This episode is for anyone trying to lock down the rules early on, because the real secret is being able to evolve together.

Welcome to Not Swinging, a raw, real look at modern relationships.

I'm Dave Arena.

And I'm Victoria Arena.

We've been together nearly 30 years, married over 24, and swinging for more than 22.

We're starting this podcast now because for too long, fear kept us from living authentically, from being open about who we are and what our relationship actually looks like.

Maybe this is our modern day scarlet.

Letter, but we're here to be both the example and the invitation to help others own their desires and question the scripts we've all been handed.

What's broken in today's relationships?

Is monogamy even natural for humans?

And could the secret to a relationship that doesn't drain your soul be owning other people?

This show explores how love, sex, and identity often buckle under the weight of societal expectations, especially monogamy.

Subscribe to Coming Out Swinging, the podcast that redefines couple goals straight from the OGs.

Okay, so today we're going to talk about our evolution in the lifestyle, especially from the beginning where we thought our rules were quote, unquote set, or maybe not set.

But we.

Yeah, we thought we.

We were going along with what everyone else kind of did, to be honest, on the apps and stuff.

We would.

Yeah, we would look at people's profiles and they'd be like, couples only.

And, you know, single males don't even contact us.

And we just kind of followed suit because we didn't really know what we were doing.

Yeah, we didn't know what we wanted, so.

And some of this we have touched on in other episodes, but really this is just a streamlined version of how we evolved and got to where we are now 22 years later.

So again, we've mentioned the story, but we started off by meeting a couple in our local area on a swingers app.

Correct.

And that was the typical way.

I guess a lot of people, like.

A lot of people we have met started.

Yeah.

And that was good for our first encounter.

You know, we, We.

We had Several encounters with them over time.

It wasn't like.

It wasn't all bad.

It wasn't.

Yeah.

No.

And it wasn't one and done or anything, but became.

First of all, we were curious.

Right.

About other things.

Right.

And also, they got to be a little bit too playbooky, or at least the male half of that couple.

Yeah.

You.

You actually called that out right away.

Yeah.

You weren't into that.

No.

It started to get too clingerish, I think.

Yeah.

And I.

And I thought that was kind of weird.

And it was too, like, literally, when we say playbook, like, he wanted to, like, oh, this time we can do this.

Next time we can do that.

He literally had a playbook.

Yeah.

And I think it brought up some anxiety in you as well.

Just like, I don't really want to.

Like, this isn't really fun for me.

And also, maybe just the.

I don't know, what was it just like, look like you didn't want to really think about it that hard or like, what is he expecting?

Yeah.

And I didn't want to be.

You know, this was supposed to be our fantasy and our hotness.

You know, I didn't want to be his plaything fantasy.

Like, he tells me what to.

Like, I'm not into that.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah.

I'm not.

And, you know, I'm not here to be your dream of, you know, because next time you should wear purple and you should do that.

You know, I was like, what?

I'm not doing that.

Like, no, we're not doing this.

So we met another couple online on the app, and they were older than us, and they invite us out for drinks out by them.

And.

Yeah, it was a little bit of ways.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so we're like, well, what the hell?

Let's.

Let's venture out and see, you know, what.

What that.

What unfolds.

Nothing ended up happening in terms of play.

But they did invite us to a house party.

Correct.

So we were like, okay, that sounds interesting.

Exciting.

And I'll let you tell the story of what happened.

I immediately got.

Once we got there, typical Vic.

I was.

I mean, prior to even going, I was like, what are we doing?

We're going to somebody's house.

We don't even know these people.

Right.

Like, I.

I didn't know what to.

Expect because we didn't even know this couple.

We.

We call them our mentors.

They wouldn't even probably know that we've mentioned them before, but we didn't even know them very well.

We had only met them out the one night for the drinks and then that we were going with them.

So we were like.

And I'm such a scaredy cat of everything.

So now we're going with this couple to somebody else's house to, you know, I, I it, you, you have play every scenario out in your head, you know what I mean?

And not just bad, but even every sexual, like thing that could be happened.

Like, what am I walking into?

You know?

Yeah.

And yours is a lot of self conscious stuff too.

Like, like, do I need to be naked?

Like, like, what are the rules?

Like, does everybody have to strip down?

Like, it's stuff like that in addition to your normal crazy.

Yeah.

Like, am I gonna get ax murdered?

Yeah, exactly.

And I remember getting there and it was kind of a lot what I thought.

Like, we got there and they introduced us to the people.

Well, it was mingling at first, so it was fine.

Yeah, but it was set up.

It was already.

The party was set up bed wise and placement wise.

So, like.

Yeah, the couple that were running it, not the couple we were with, that they, the couple we were with introduced us to this couple.

They were like this hippie, dippy couple.

Like, they were like, they were total hippies.

Yeah.

If you were, if there was a, if there was such a thing as what a swinger, like, would you think a swinger would look like that sounds horrible.

They probably would be it.

Yeah, they were total hippies.

But like, there were just mattresses everywhere.

In the living room.

Just living room, the hallway, the dining room.

Yeah, there were just mattresses.

And I was like, what the hell?

I literally kind of freaked out.

I started to freak out right there.

My eyes.

You were like hyperventilating.

Yeah, my eyes were big.

And I remember the couple we're with, I remember she saying, why don't we go outside?

Like, she just saw it all over my face.

Yeah, we need to get you out of here.

And we ended up going outside with them and sitting on this big, huge porch and just talking for hours.

Like the party was going on inside, but we never, we never went back in.

And they just wanted to hear, like, what were we into?

What were our wants?

What were, what are we looking for?

What got us into it?

Basically a lot of the things that people ask us today, but we kind of really didn't have a ton of answers for them.

We were like exploring still.

And I remember I would say one thing and she'd be like, oh, well, then maybe eventually you'll be into this.

Yeah.

And that also goes.

Oh, I didn't even think about that.

That also goes to show you the caliber of people they are as well.

Because we know we're kind of snobby about our time now after being in this for so long and.

Yeah.

And when newbies just want to talk all night or we'll look at each other and be like, yeah, we're never going to do anything here, so let's move on.

For them to take that time while the party was going on and sacrifice kind of their portion of that night, you know, was.

Says a lot about how they are.

Yeah, they're good people.

But, yeah, it was.

I mean, I thought it was great.

Yeah.

And then they introduced us to the clubs and we didn't even know there was such a thing.

We didn't even know where they were, what they were.

And so they said, yeah, you guys might want to check out a club.

Because we had expressed our frustration.

Maybe not frustration, but we expressed that we really were finding it not so exciting anymore with just this one couple and doing kind of the same thing planned out.

And they said, well, why don't you go to a club?

Because that at least gives you a night out.

There's a lot going on.

If you just want to watch, if you just want to get your feet wet, if you want to see what's going on.

And, you know, that introduced us to that whole world first.

Yeah.

And I think, I think knowing, I mean, I remember them telling us about clubs and.

And I remember being more shocked that, like, I've probably walked by that door where it was located and would have never known that it was there.

And things like that.

Like, I thought that was pretty interesting to me.

Like stuff that I was so naive about, like, just kind of.

They brought to light.

Well, what's funny is it was right behind where the Cleveland Improv was, where I did comedy often.

Yes.

And it was like.

So, yeah, it was funny that it was literally right there.

Yeah, it was pretty bizarre.

And so clubs became kind of our main.

It became our main hangout in terms of, like our social life in the lifestyle.

Like, we, we then really, we did like it.

We liked the fact that it was a night out for us, even if nothing happened or we would make our own fun or it was just much more exciting.

So we gravitated toward the clubs.

And then the same couple also introduced us to private parties.

They actually had a private party in this beautiful loft.

It was a three story loft and it was really, really cool.

And that was your first introduction well, other than the house party, which you left and didn't participate in.

Right.

That was our first experience of being in the open.

Because their loft area, even though it was three floors, there were no rooms, no doors on anything.

Yeah, there were slight rooms, but the doors were not there.

There were no doors.

Yeah.

And there were like little crevices and stuff which you found because you'd find your little crevices to go in where you could be somewhat private.

But even that freaked you out back in the day.

Oh, yeah, I, I guess still becoming vocal with like asking permission.

Like I just thought if a room was open, there are, you know, hey, they're there too.

And they're a lot, you know, they're still not allowed to touch you.

And I had to really get that into my head.

Yeah, you had those part of the rules.

Right.

You had to understand the boundaries and the rules.

Yeah.

You thought it was just going to be a free for all or what if I, you know, I have to speak up and say no.

I think again, you also had some self conscious issues.

I mean, so do I.

As far as like, I don't want to be, you know, fully naked and just out there.

And you know, of course, let's be honest, back in the day, we were both a lot heavier than we are even now.

So like that played into our insecurities as well.

Of course.

Yeah.

But that became what I mean, those parties were probably once every month, maybe not, maybe even further spread out, maybe once every couple months.

So it wasn't like it was always happening.

But those, those became things we got excited socially, we looked forward to.

Yeah.

I liked going shopping and getting stuff to be able to wear and you know, you just, it became a social thing.

So that like I liked getting all done up and being able to go and do that stuff.

Yeah.

And then I think the next level of evolution was the hotel takeovers, which we also really liked.

Yeah, I really did like hotel takeovers.

We haven't done one in a long time.

But yeah, yeah.

We're not really in an area where when we were in New York City, a lot of them happened in New Jersey.

So we would, you know, that was an easy trip.

Yeah.

And we, what we really liked about the hotel takeovers is again, it was an exciting event where anything spontaneous could happen.

You just didn't know.

And we realized very quickly that that was our thing.

Our thing was just the spontaneous in the moment.

Like whatever happens is exciting.

We don't know what's going to happen.

And a lot of those takeovers in Jersey were IR parties.

And that became a lot of our scene as well.

You might want to explain ir.

Oh yeah, it just interracial and so, you know, BBC and you know, I, I don't think this is racist or whatever.

It's just the way it is.

They typically like curvy, thick white women.

You're their demographic.

Yeah, I tend to be their.

Their cup of tea.

So we would go to those parties and we would have a lot of fun.

But what was great about those parties is you would actually be able to, you know, just like the clubs were a night out for us.

Those were a night out and we'd be able to get our own room.

We were able to stay over.

So there was no pressure.

You, there was no time to leave.

We could go back to our room if we ever needed a break and then come out and mingle and, you know, bring people back to the room.

Like, it was just.

It was really cool to have everything happening in one space.

Typically it was like one floor of a hotel.

Sometimes it's a whole hotel takeover.

But it's a nice one.

It's like one floor because it's like everything is right there.

We also started to do things that we were pushing our own envelope as well.

Like the next morning, I'd be the so called booty call to go to somebody's room, you know, a guy's room.

Yeah.

So you would do things solo like that, which we had never done before.

So.

Yeah.

And that led from pillow talk as well.

So we would, you know, after our night out, we'd wake up in the morning, usually have sex with each other, have hot pillow talk, and I'd be like, you know, if there was a guy you knew or met or what have you, and we'd start talking about that.

And then I'd kind of push you to be like, oh, you should go, you know, over there or into his room or whatever.

And then.

And then just like everything we do, like at first you.

It was just hot for us in the moment and you would never act on it.

And then at one point you did start acting on it, which was like super hot.

Then you'd send me videos and things of that nature while I was in our room.

Yeah, that was fun.

Yeah.

And so I, that, that kind of evolved to where it's like.

So not only the types of events and the types of scenarios we got into, but also things like you mentioned where our play also evolved.

So it was instead of just couples or instead of being in the same room.

We would do things in different rooms.

We would do, you know, we would mix up that as well.

Yeah.

As you're alluding to.

And even we mentioned this on the last episode.

We even got to the point where you let me go play solo.

It's the only time that's happened.

It was the only time it's happened.

Other than, yeah, go play solo.

I shouldn't say.

Well, no.

Half played solo, like in a club setting.

Like I've let you just go off into a room with somebody.

Yeah.

I.

We should clarify.

You're absolutely right.

This was when you actually sent me.

To somebody's hotel room without me for an evening.

Yeah.

That we weren't.

We weren't out together.

Right.

So, yeah, it's.

It's.

So it's not just the.

The.

The settings that we played in.

It's also the way we were playing, like, different.

Evolved as well.

Yeah.

And you've also done solo play.

The reason why we said that it was a one time only at this point, at least, that you sent me to a hotel with a female is because you had done that in the past before, where it was someone that we knew and that we had played with before or you had played with before, but you would go to their hotel room.

Yeah.

By yourself.

Right.

And I got off on that because it was some sort of anticipation thing, I believe, because that's.

It's.

It's kind of like you had to.

Wait to see the video.

You had to wait to hear the pillow talk.

You had to wait.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't want to say.

This is gonna sound kind of shitty.

I don't want to say it was fear, but it's like there's that little bit of, like.

Also, like, you're kind of upping the stakes a little bit.

Even though it was someone we knew.

It's like, I'm not there.

Oh, yeah.

So it's kind of that feeling too.

Like, am I waiting to hear from you?

Waiting for that text to come in.

Right.

And the anticipation of it.

Super hot, though, because it's like once you, you know, once you would text me or we used to do that even in the club scene or party scene, where either I wasn't there at all because I had something else going on.

Oh, yeah.

Or I was delayed.

So, like, if I had a show, I would be coming afterwards and you were already there.

Yeah.

And that's really hot for me, being like, oh, did you.

And you'd be like, oh, yeah, something already happened.

Or this happened.

Or, you know, and, like, those things were super hot, you know, or even in the club, we used to play those kind of games.

I say games because it's games between you and I where even if we were in the club at the same time, you would be like, yeah, I think I'm going to go off and take a walk.

You know what I mean?

And then once you're inside a room or if you.

If you found some action, then you would text me and be like, you know, this so and so, or this is happening.

And, like, those just became our ways.

And it took me a long time to do that just because I would say it, because I knew it was hot for you, but then I never did it because it was, like, so out of character for me.

And you're like, you know, it'd be really hot is if you go and do this tonight.

I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go do that.

And then.

But then it didn't happen because it took me to get over that hump of, like, actually, like, doing it and realizing it was okay.

It was one of those things that every couple deals with still, where you're like, is it really okay to push the envelope?

He said it.

So, like, am I really gonna do it?

That's a great point, because that's really what we're about.

Talking.

Talking about.

Especially for new couples that haven't really done anything at all, or they're stuck in just, like, doing couples and they're wondering if they're going to do more.

You bring up a great point, because that's what it's all about is, like, pushing that envelope.

And you're right.

I.

I have a kink of.

I don't know if it's a kink, but I get off on when something is more out of character for you, and I almost talk you into it again.

It's going to sound horrible to say some people, but only because.

And I could say that because you don't do anything you don't want to do.

For sure, you would just shoot me down.

But you would push the envelope a little bit each time, and you.

And it would take you a lot to get over the hump.

And I think that's what's hot for me.

Because if it was easy, if you would just be like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go do that, or I'm going to go do this, then there wouldn't be that tension there, and it wouldn't be hot.

Right?

So you're right.

It Would take you a while to either, you know, build it up.

There were even certain things where you're just like, yeah, I'm not doing that, or whatever.

And then eventually you would.

But.

Yeah, it's like.

But when we would get in those moments where you would finally do it, it was so hot.

Because when I would get that text and be like, holy, like, she actually did it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Exactly.

Yeah.

So, you know, and again, those are the things for us that it's not just an evolution in.

In what we're doing, but it's an evolution in how we're doing it as well.

Like, how.

How are we spicing it up for each other, where we're kind of playing these games with each other or these scenarios or these different things where we're always pushing it a little bit.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And always still with tons of open communication so that we.

We knew we were on the same page.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What about.

So we talked about the different settings, like couples only or not couples only, but meeting couples, house parties, hotel takeovers, clubs.

And then we mentioned the different ways we were playing, whether it was solo or same room or different rooms.

What about specific kinks that have involved, like, evolved?

Like, do you have any.

Anything that you think, oh, I wouldn't have done that, or maybe I didn't know I was into that in the beginning.

Oh.

I mean, I obviously did not think the com fetish was a big, huge thing for me in the beginning.

Yeah.

Like, I.

I would have avoided that at all costs.

And what you mean specifically is guys coming on you.

Yeah.

I like when they come on my tits or on my ass.

And it's very specific because if it hits my face or my hair, all hell will break loose.

That's the makeup artist in you.

Yeah.

And I put a lot of work into it, but, yeah, I did not think that that would be a thing.

Yeah.

Really?

I mean, I.

That's a big one for me, I guess.

You know, there's also other things, like even black guys that we mentioned.

Right.

Because you had never thought.

Because you had never been with one before, so.

Yeah, I mean, I just.

Yeah, I think that probably would have just been, like.

It would have came with the territory just because I would have been wanting to try the whole rainbow of a.

Of people in which it has.

Because, you know, I've been quite a few Asian men and.

Yeah.

So, like, I just.

I never thought that would be a thing either, really.

I guess.

Yeah.

And that's only because of course, neither one of us had a lot of experience before we met each other anyhow.

But I think that comes with that, where it's like you just don't know what your preferences are or you don't know what you would be into.

You know, I think certain things we've ruled out as well.

Like we're not really into the BDSM thing.

Like, we don't mind light playing here and there or watching, but we're not really into that whole scene.

It's not our thing.

No.

And I think also the last thing I'll touch on is just our evolution to what we do now.

And we've touched on this in other episodes too, where now we just.

We value our time.

And typically we're going to go out just for us.

And it's a night out, and we will start in the open in a club or an event, whether it's hotel takeover, any of the things we mentioned.

But it's usually a public event or public scenario, and it's usually in the open, whether that's us in the open, in a group room, a voyeur room, a room with a door open, some form of invitation for other people to either watch or come in, and then we see what happens from there.

And that's kind of been our thing for a while now.

Probably the last several years, I would say, at least.

Yeah.

Which is kind of ironic if you think about how we started and what we talked about.

Where the house party freaked you out because it was all in the open.

Yeah.

And, and, and the mentor couples, private parties when it was out in the open.

Yeah.

And just to think about what we do now really does show you the full evolution.

Oh, completely.

After 22 years.

Like, did a whole full circle.

If you ask the Vic back then.

If you were.

You'd be doing the things we do now.

I would have said hell no.

Right?

No way.

Well, I think that's gonna do it for this episode.

That is our entire evolution.

I mean, I know again, we don't get into real gritty details.

Maybe people want that.

But, like, you could see at least, like, how we evolved, start hitting us.

Up and giving us questions.

If you want some gritty details, we can answer them.

Yep, absolutely.

We'll see you next time.

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