How Swinging Made Our Marriage Bulletproof

You know, a lot of couples may try swinging once or for a short period of time.

So what made us keep going and Keep growing for 22 years?

In this episode, we share the real reasons we stayed in the lifestyle, from the electric excitement to the deep, unexpected communication breakthrough swinging created.

We also talk about how swinging gave us new ways to keep things fun, adventurous, and even a little competitive, while our monogamous friends stayed stuck in miserable, disconnected relationships.

If you've ever wondered what swinging can really add to a strong relationship, this is the episode that spells it out.

Welcome to Coming Out Swinging, a raw.

Real look at modern relationships.

I'm Dave Arena.

And I'm Victoria Arena.

We've been together nearly 30 years, married over 24, and swinging for more than 22.

We're starting this podcast now because for too long, fear kept us from living authentically, from being open about who we are and what our relationship actually looks like.

Maybe this is our modern day Scarlet.

Letter, but we're here to be both the example and the invitation to help others own their desires and question the scripts we've all been handed.

What's broken in today's relationships?

Is monogamy even natural for humans?

And could the secret to a relationship that doesn't drain your soul be owning other people?

This show explores how love, sex, and identity often buckle under the weight of societal expectations, especially monogamy.

Subscribe to Coming Out Swinging, the podcast that redefines couple goals straight from the.

Og okay, so today we're going to talk about kind of the four big reasons we kept swinging for all these years.

Yes.

Because we see a lot of people come and go.

We really do.

We see people that try it, like, once and we've never seen them again.

Yeah.

Or we've seen people come and, you know, they just watch every time.

Like, I mean, that's fine, too.

But, like, what I'm saying is, like, they just.

A lot of people disappear from this world.

Yeah.

Either one time and they're done.

Yeah.

Or just a short period of time.

Yeah.

Which is understandable.

I get that.

But I think the first reason really, for us is the excitement.

Oh, absolutely.

Like, no matter how many years go by, there's always a spark.

Yeah.

It's always spicy.

It's always.

It's not mundane.

It's not like, you know, like, I hear stories of couples that say things like, oh, it's a chore.

I have to go down on them.

I have to do, you know, like.

Like, that stuff blows my mind.

I just don't understand it.

Why Connecting with your partner is a choreography.

Like, I, I, I really can't ever wrap my mind about it.

So to know that we have this extra, like, sex toy, basically, that's what this, you know, in my mind, that's the best scenario to explain.

Keeps us going.

Like, it's so.

It's fun.

It's spicy.

We always ask each other if we think we need this at this point, and I.

We always say no.

But I'm almost wondering, like, do you think we do?

I mean, we always have had a good sex life.

Although I will say most of our marriage has been in the lifestyle.

But even before that, we had a good sex life.

Yeah.

And things have always been exciting, even when it's you and I.

But I don't know, I think a big part of our excitement in our even.

Because it's become part of our social life too.

Like us going out.

Yes.

I mean, maybe we're being a little delulu, saying, like, we don't need it.

I don't know that we need it.

I do believe we both want it.

Yeah.

Like, I couldn't imagine cutting this out of my social.

Right.

And doing vanilla, like, whatever that is.

Yeah.

Like, what are we gonna do?

Like, painting, sip or whatever.

Sip and paint.

Sip and paint on a Friday night.

I don't know what the hell we'd be doing.

Yeah.

Like, I, that's just not us.

Yeah.

It's.

I mean, for us.

I think this makes it also just never routine.

Correct.

Yes.

And the intimacy stays playful, alive.

I think there's an adrenaline rush as well to it.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And I think sometimes when it's like a scenario that's out of character for me, like that.

Well, we always know that that's true.

Just hot for you anyways.

But, like, it, it just, it, it.

Whatever you can create in that.

That night or that moment or that whenever we play, I don't know, we've played day and night, so I can't really say that.

You know, it just makes everything more energizing.

Yeah.

You know, there's no lag.

And I think the excitement part of it is why we even evolved to what we evolved to in terms of how we play.

Like, again.

And we've said this on previous episodes where we don't look to communicate a lot and meet people and go out and feel them out and have a connection.

Correct.

We basically post up at a club or an event or something where it's a night out for us no matter what.

Yes.

And we also will play in the Open with just you and I starting no matter what.

I mean, unless in the rare case we.

We hit it off with someone right off the bat, and we.

Right.

We end up being with, you know, someone.

But typically, we will start just you and I in the open, and then whatever happens happens, because we want that spontaneous, you know, we just want whatever happens in the moment happens.

And what's funny about that is you, like, seeing how you have evolved specifically, especially since you were so self conscious and still, so.

Oh, yes, we all.

We all very self conscious as a woman.

Right.

And.

And you never would do anything out in the open.

And.

No, in the beginning, I was like, hell no.

We are closing a door, locking it.

Like, you know, they can listen.

Like, that's how it was in the beginning.

And I was like, yeah, it was.

And we also would do, like, couples only at some point.

And then we just, you know.

But again, we evolved based on the excitement factor.

We evolved where we're like, ooh, like, what if that is exciting?

If a single guy, like, just came in or, you know, and then it got to the point where today we literally just start with each other, and then whatever happens in the moment happens.

If it's something we could talk about.

For us was.

And not to click you off, but, like, I think a big thing for us early on was observation.

So, like, you know, you go to these clubs or parties or whatever, and you're observing what's happening around you, and then you take that scenario home that maybe you didn't try.

Right?

Yeah.

And we have pillow talk about it because we thought it was hot, what we saw.

Yeah.

And then we're like, well, would you try, you know, would you let me try that?

Would you, you know, would that be hot?

You know, or maybe we should try that, you know, that kind of thing.

And I remember slowly starting to keep the crack cracked open.

And then, yeah, you know, a single guy would come over and push it open because, you know, they push boundaries.

And they push it open and you get so pissed.

Oh, I would get so pissed.

Don't touch my door.

Yeah, Then.

Then you wanted the chain.

For those that don't know, if you put the chain across the door, you can keep the door open and put the chain across, and they can watch, but they can't come in.

And anytime I tried to push the boundaries and, like, leave it.

I'd like, try to be slick and leave it off, and you'd be like, put that chain up, like.

And then I would freak out.

Yeah.

Right.

So it just Slowly evolved to where what we did today is.

I mean, of course the club here that we go to is all open.

Yeah.

There is no.

There are no rooms, so.

But yeah, it's just funny.

But that.

What you said about observation.

No, what you said about coming home and talking about it leads kind of into the second reason.

Yeah.

Why we've kept in the lifestyle, which is the deeper communication, which actually surprised us.

It surprised us, I think, in two sense.

And you.

You let me know your thoughts on this one.

I think it was just the fact that we were able to find out a lot more about what each other liked.

And that evolves too.

Right.

Or, you know, what we thought was exciting, what we were into sexually.

Correct.

Yes.

Way more than we probably ever would have.

But then it also just allowed us to communicate more deeply on just all sorts of levels because I think, I don't know, there's something weird about the sexual stuff.

Like, if you can talk about that stuff, you can really talk about anything.

I completely agree.

I think.

I don't understand people who can't communicate their desires.

Like, I.

I mean, it happens every day and I just can't.

I can't wrap my head around it.

But like, I don't know how that's healthy.

So you're just gonna stay miserable and meh.

Because you can't.

You don't want to say what you desire or.

And it.

That's literally all it is.

It doesn't mean you're going out and act like, even if you don't try swinging ever, or you don't try these adventurous things ever.

Why can't you just talk about it behind your.

Your closed door?

Yeah.

Like you said about like the example you gave of like, oh, I gotta go down on you or whatever.

It's almost like it becomes a duty or like a.

Like a chore.

Right.

Like you're just doing it just every once in a while because that's what you're supposed to do.

And how does that make your partner feel?

You know what I mean?

And likewise, guy on girl, girl on guy, you know, like, it just like, I don't understand that.

Yeah.

I think also nothing was really off limits anymore.

And again, this goes back to what we were saying about even guys where you felt you had to hide porn or you had to hide this.

You had to wall off this portion of you.

Right.

Because that wasn't something you could talk about with your spouse.

So I think just the note, the shame and the.

No secrets and the.

No taboos and I mean, We've talked about some.

It was funny.

We were on a podcast.

Yeah.

And they actually told us.

They're like, yeah, you guys, like, we want some juicy details.

Like, we actually don't.

You actually aren't that explicit on your podcast.

And I thought, I'm like, I wonder if, like, we should be like, is that, like, something that we're missing out on?

But, like, we have not.

Like, we've talked.

We talked about in pillow talk a lot.

About a lot of things that we were like, whoa.

Like, I did.

Like, I.

There's been times where you were even, like, afterwards.

You're like, I didn't know how you would react if I said that, but.

Because in the moment, you said, whatever.

Yeah.

And I.

I mean, I don't know if you have any examples or anything you want to share, if you're too, like, maybe.

Are we too closed up with this stuff or.

No, I mean, there.

We've definitely pushed a boundary over the years.

I think one of the hottest things I ever did with you was.

So we had gone, like, on a Friday night.

So the club in New York City was open Friday and Saturday.

Well, they're open all the time.

But, like, we went Friday.

This particular weekend, we went Friday night.

And, you know, when I went, I.

I'm the woman.

I got the.

I got a lot of attention.

And, you know, the workers would tease Dave, oh, you know, vic's gonna get the attention, or Vic always gets hers, or.

Or, you know, whatever.

It's some.

It's harder for a guy to meet, like, a woman or me to even feel like a woman's not a cray cray.

And there was a woman.

I was at the bar with my friend, and we were, you know, having a couple drinks, and she's like, God, Dave's talking to that girl in the corner.

And I thought to myself, dave's talking to a girl?

Like, what?

And I remember looking over my shoulder.

I have no game at all.

You're my wing woman.

Which is another thing we're talking about here.

Right?

With the communication.

Yeah.

You're.

If I was a single guy in this thing, I'd do nothing.

Oh, yeah.

You'd be dead in this one.

Yeah.

You're a good wing woman.

Yeah.

Which, again, how.

How many people could say that about their wife?

Yeah.

And she was cute.

She was, you know, you guys just talked.

I.

I don't think it was anything, you know, interesting happening, like, when you were there or whatever.

Well, she took.

I could definitely tell she was interested and she wanted she asked to sit by me.

And then also, as you know, when there's a single female, a lot of single guys were just going crazy.

Yeah, they were.

She was kind of creeped out a little bit.

So I think I was like, again, a safe haven.

Safe.

Yeah.

So I think I, you know, went back to my socializing or whatever and then I said, there's a bed up there.

And they were like, dave's on the bed with the girl.

And I was like, what?

Like, never my shoulder, but it didn't bother me.

And I was just like, hey, Dave's doing his thing.

I always get my, you know, like, this is great.

It was hot.

It was super hot.

Well then.

Well then.

No, after that.

So then the owner of the club, who you're friends with was like, he's fucking that girl on the couch.

Like, you were like, I can't.

Because.

And it was so surprising because I never make a move like that.

But it happens so organically.

And because you set it up initially, meaning you sent her kind of over.

Yeah.

To talk.

I knew.

I just know.

But.

Okay, so this is the level of communication we're talking about.

I know that if you want something to happen and you set it up.

And this is also plays into the competitive part that we talked about at the opening.

Yeah, you're competitive in the sense that everyone's gawking about this single female that comes in and wants to, you know.

You were like, I'm gonna make this happen with my husband and she's gonna have a good time.

Correct.

So when I know you're in that mode.

When I got the.

If I got the opportunity and I didn't do it, you would have kicked my ass.

Yeah, I would have been like, you are so lame.

Yeah.

Like, now you're cut off.

Yeah.

So, you know, that happened.

So I remember going over and sitting and watching and like, the whole thing was just like, hot.

You know, you kind of just went into a zone.

It was great.

And then afterwards, we.

We talked to her for a while and she was like, so I have a.

I remember her small story.

She was in for a wedding for a friend, and she had like some stuff the next day, like, you know, like early wedding or something.

And she's like, maybe I'll come back.

And I said, oh, here's my number.

I, we.

We always do women, you know, I usually do the communicating outside.

And I remember exchanging with her.

It wasn't until like 10 o' clock, 9:30, 10 o' clock the next night, and she texted us and said, are you guys at the club?

And we said, no.

We just hung inside because we didn't hear from her by 10 o' clock.

You didn't think anything, you know.

And she was like, oh, I, I, that's sad.

I thought about going back up there tonight and I said, oh, well, where are you staying?

You know, that kind of thing.

I said.

And I remember just because talking to her the night before, we found out that her thing was married guys.

Like, that was her turn on.

Yeah.

A guy with a ring and that.

I was so open.

She was like, that's cool.

So I remember saying to her, just out of the clear blue, I think Dave almost fell off the cherry was sitting on.

And I said, how about I send Dave to you?

Yeah.

And she was like, what?

You would do that?

And I said, sure, I don't even need to come.

And, and I, we had, we've never done anything like this ever.

I have.

Yeah.

Especially like a hotel takeover.

Whatever.

I've gone to like somebody's hotel room.

Like the next morning while I'm just chilling or.

Yeah, but me never like, no.

Yeah.

And you know, I said, she goes, oh, well, what are your rules?

And I just gave her like, like, I mean, I think my rule was like, you had to be home by two.

Like, I, I didn't want you out past two.

Really.

In New York City.

Like, I just, I don't know, it was just in my head, like, I just gave a time and I wanted like one or two, like a little short snippet of a video or something sexy for me to see that you guys did.

And I think that might have been it.

I, I don't even think I gave a third.

No.

That you said the, I had to be home.

Yeah, you had to be home.

And yeah.

The video.

The video sent you.

It was so funny because I was in the, I jumped in the shower before and I literally kept saying, like, I kept calling out to you, like, are you sure about this?

Like, like I'm like, I remember that even in the Uber, I was like, are you still sure?

Because I literally would have just turned around and turned around again.

Back to communication.

Right.

If there was any inkling of ever wavered that night.

No, I was cool as a cucumber.

Yeah.

And it was so hot.

And then obviously.

And then obviously we were able to, to reconnect and that was, but that's an example of an evolution of something we had never done, never thought that would happen.

And it just, yeah, it was super hot.

It Was so exciting.

And then, you know, we do things like.

Of course, I'm usually the one pushing the envelope.

I think more.

Yeah.

Because I have these visions in my head where it's like we just go through these phases.

Right?

We go through these phases where I'm like, well, what if the guy's just like.

Like, you put your ass up in the air.

You're blowing me.

And then they just rub themselves on you.

On your ass.

Like an ass job type of thing.

And then.

Because you.

Like when guys come on you.

Yeah, I have a competition.

Especially in me.

On me.

On you.

Especially on your ass.

Yeah.

So I was like, well, what if guys just kind of got behind you?

And, like, that's what we told them they could do.

But then some would try to push the envelope a little bit, or you.

They could tell that you were kind of into, you know?

So it's like all these.

Sometimes I'm like.

I, like, reach over because, like, I'm, like, really into it, like, whatever's happening in the moment.

And then, like, I slide the guy the condom.

Yeah.

And I would.

And the guy gets like.

You could tell.

He's like, holy.

I'm gonna get to.

I'm gonna get to her now.

And what's weird.

What's weird is that, like, I have to have it go a certain way where they almost don't know.

They.

They don't know.

What if they can go further?

Yeah.

And that tension is the excitement for me.

And then sometimes you'll speak, you'll be like, oh, you can me.

And I'm like, you just ruined the whole.

Like, that just.

That threw me out of the moment.

But it's like that.

Those kind of scenarios, like, we just come up with these different things.

I don't know if you could think of any other.

No, I mean, not right off the top of my head, but, like, those are kind of the ones.

I mean, like.

And it's not a game.

It's not a game because it really does take me out, too.

Like, I have to really be into it and vibing with it for.

To, you know, like, to go that way.

So.

Yeah.

It's not like it's, you know, it doesn't become a chore.

We keep it spicy.

Yeah.

And we keep.

The point is, we always are communicated, and we always come up with these scenarios.

Like you said, either something we've seen other people do or something we just kind of come up with, and we're like, yeah, what if we tried that?

Or what if we did one of.

The things I thought more recently, actually, which we don't really do very often, even though we say we go upstairs and kind of start our own thing or whatever.

One of the things that I'm finding really hot nowadays is the starting on the couch play and, you know, like, finger play and, you know, oral play, like right there on the couch where people are just, like, standing over you watching.

And we saw a couple doing it and we were, like, so turned on by them.

Yeah.

And lately that's just kind of been like a thing, like, we've wanted to, like, you know, or the horse.

I'll.

I'll, like, go over the horse, like, so that my ass is like.

Yeah, over the horse and stuff.

And I think those have been, like, super hot.

Because then we're not like, laying down on a bed for two hours, just, you know, mundane.

We do.

We have had people go, my God, he her forever.

Well, we do that because we don't know what the hot situation of the night is going to be sometimes.

Yeah.

People don't know what our deal is.

Yeah.

And Dave does have stamina.

So we, like, you know, it's just.

Sometimes it's just like, that's just the way it's gonna go.

So I think now, like, we've been breaking it up and taking breaks, maybe going down and having another drink.

Like, we don't mind even getting dressed again and going downstairs.

Most people that say that, they don't understand that we're doing that.

We're starting with each other and we're doing things so that, like, mostly single guys, let's be honest.

Yeah.

That's our thing.

Will come up and either ask or start, you know, engaging.

Yeah.

That's why we do that for so long is like we're trying to just have it happen organically.

Exactly.

And not a playbook.

Yeah.

Right.

Not a conversation for hours.

Correct.

You know, I think also, too.

And this is gonna sound shitty probably, but I don't really care.

I feel like the fourth reason.

I mean, so we've already gone over kind of the excitement, the deeper communication, the endless new things to try.

Like, we just.

Yeah.

I think the fourth big key of why we've kept doing this is I feel like I think you'll understand what I'm talking about.

I feel like we're one upping the average vanilla relationship.

I completely agree with you, and I.

Know that sounds shitty, but you alluded to it when you said, you know, about vanilla relationships and it being a duty and, you know, but we see all Sorts of shit where it's just like, you guys are miserable and I just don't see the intimacy, I don't see the connection.

I don't see the communication.

I just see two people living together.

Right.

And having a lot of times, you know, kids or jobs and just going through the mundane way of life.

And you bring this up all the time.

It's a, it's a, it's a silly example, but like, it really is a great example where, you know, if we're out somewhere, you have no problem saying, oh, that dude's hot.

Or you'll pick out a woman and be like, did you see that?

And of course, I'm usually oblivious and.

Like, I did Mrs.

Everything.

Right.

But you'll point it out.

I've even had like on Instagram where you'll, you'll just like follow different, like, models that you're like, oh, she's thick like you, you'd, like, hurt.

You know, I'm like, I would have never, you know, put that on my, like, social media.

At one point you were like, why are you putting, putting all these plus size models on my.

Right.

But I'm just saying, as silly as that may sound compared to most couples where you're either gonna get smacked in the head if you, if you turn your head at another chick.

Yeah.

Or you're constantly like, not trusting each other and trying to break into their phone or check their phone while.

You know what I mean?

Like, we don't have any of those.

No.

None concerns or worries.

You know what I mean?

And I just, I really don't, like.

I, I don't have any way that I lean where it's a non trust with you in this world.

I trust you with all my everything, my safety, my feelings are big thing.

Huge.

Like, if I felt like one minute like Dave, we pushed the envelope too far, you would hear me out.

Yes.

And we'd fix it.

But like, we've never had that.

We've never even had to do that because the communication is so open for us.

Yeah.

But there have been times where you're like, either not into something as much as.

As much as I had it in my head or.

Yeah.

Or you were like, I don't really.

But again, I.

You brought up the safety too.

Like, that's what really deepens the level of trust and the communication, again, is because there is more at stake than just, you know, there are other aspects when you're doing this, like safety and, and trust.

And also, just what do you like and what don't you like and, oh, that.

Or that didn't sit well with me.

Or I didn't really like that you did that or whatever.

I mean, again, we don't really have.

I can't really think of any examples that.

I know.

Mo.

Mostly our things are the.

Like, I.

Mostly with you and I, it's you not liking or not being into something as much as I may be into it.

Like, I'll come up with an idea and you'll be like, no.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you what.

There are all walks of life that come through those doors when they get a paycheck of single men, and I gotta be wooed a little bit.

Like, I'm not into, like, the.

The ripped sweatpants and the T shirt and the, like, they've got to be clean, groomed, smell good.

And there's times where Dave's tried to push the envelope, and he's like, oh, just come up.

You know, like, he just wants.

No, I'm not.

And I get it.

I get it when you tell me, you know, but again, you have.

That's why communication is so important.

Absolutely.

When you communicate that, I'm like, I get it.

I get what you're saying, and you understand.

You even understand where I'm coming from.

You're like, I get the fact that you're eager beaver and you're getting excited about what's in your mind.

And to double up on that, there's been guys that I'm into, and then they get up close and I'm like, I can't.

I don't know what's going on.

Or they plow or.

They plowed through 10 women already.

Yeah.

Oh, that one drives me nuts.

If I've seen you go through, first of all, some of these clubs, some of the.

Wait, don't.

We'll talk about this another time.

But there's a way to look and present yourself at a club as well.

Some of the time.

If I've seen what you've gone through already and then you want to come to me, I have a standard of myself.

I dress the part, I look the part.

I.

You know, I.

I don't walk around like the gum on the bottom of your shoe, you're gonna.

You're gonna want to be with me.

You know what I mean?

I.

That's just the way I.

I feel in my head.

But that's also that confidence.

But that's also your thing, too.

You like to be chased.

You like to be.

You like to be.

So I saw you go through that.

And you want to come over to me now?

Hell no.

Right.

You're like, I'm not just another one.

No way.

Yeah, for sure.

Even though we all know what we're there for, it's just absolutely.

For you, it's a little.

That's where the competitive in me gets a little bit more, you know.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So I think.

I think between those, you know, those are really the big things that have really kept us going.

For any couples out there who wonder, you know, if swinging is just a phase, for some people it is, right.

For some people, it is just.

Or it's not their thing.

Right, Right.

They do try it or they check it out.

It's just not their thing.

But I think that's.

They respectively tried it and then said, you know, just wasn't for us.

Yeah.

But I think that's why for us, it hasn't faded out or gotten old or anything.

You know what I mean?

Right.

And I think to go back on the very first question, do we need this?

I don't think we need it.

I think we want it.

I think we like it.

And it's been so ingrained in our spiritual life.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's what we do to go.

Not that that's the only.

The only thing we do, but like.

And we don't do it.

Like, people are like, oh, do you do it every week?

We could, but we don't.

Like, you know, like, most weeks.

Most weeks.

But, like, you know, it's not.

But we do other things.

We do do other things.

Yeah.

We do go to dinners and meet with friends and, you know, I have.

I have a great.

Everybody who knows me knows I'm a social princess anyway.

So, like, it's not, you know.

Yeah, this is not.

I can go without it.

Yeah.

And we'll still have great sex at home.

Yeah.

I think I would get more crabby than you, probably just because of the.

Again, I think a lot of guys, it's the excitement, it's the.

It's the what's in my mind.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I agree with you.

All right, well, I think that'll wrap it up for this episode.

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