Everyone Else Is Just a Toy—Here’s Why

In today's episode, we're breaking down the difference between swinging, polyamory, open relationships, and everything in between.

We'll talk about why we're not poly and never will be.

The show Poly Family and the emotional chaos.

It shows why emotional involvement, second wives, and relationship triangles almost never work.

And how swinging with no emotional ties is what actually strengthens our marriage.

If you're trying to figure out your lane in non monogamy, this episode will help you get real clear real fast.

Welcome to Coming Out Swing.

Welcome to Raw real look at modern relationships.

I'm Dave Arena.

And I'm Victoria Arena.

We've been together nearly 30 years, married over 24, and swinging for more than 22.

We're starting this podcast now because for too long, fear kept us from living authentically, from being open about who we are and what our relationship actually looks like.

Maybe this is our modern day Scarlet.

Letter, but we're here to be both the example and the invitation to help others own their desires and question the scripts we've all been handed.

What's broken in today's relations?

Is monogamy even natural for humans?

And could the secret to a relationship that doesn't drain your soul be owning other people?

This show explores how love, sex, and identity often buckle under the weight of societal expectations, especially monogamy.

Subscribe to Coming Out Swinging, the podcast that redefines couple goals straight from the motherfucking og.

So on this episode, we're gonna be talking about some definitions and what our lane is.

And when I say definitions, I'm not talking about like.

Like, these are just, I mean, mine and Dave's definitions.

This is not like, I mean, they technically are the definitions of the world, but we don't claim, like, claim to be your experts.

We just claim to be our own expert.

Like, we're like, yeah, we're not trying to be know it alls with like, people are so crazy about those technical definitions.

Like, yeah, like, it's kind of like, I'm not trying to be obsessive about this.

What we're going to talk about, though, is a few different definitions and terms that we have discussed in the past.

And sometimes it's not even the technical.

It may not even be the technical definition, but it's like the connotation of what it, like open relationships, for example.

Is it, I think a great thing.

To touch on here is that society or even Hollywood, and I put Hollywood in quotes, everyone meaning like housewives, the Mormon wives, you know, anything that they've portrayed swinging or some of These other categories to be or group categories together with have made me personally nuts in my own community because that's not what it is.

And I sit there and I go, yeah, but they didn't do that.

Like, that's not what it is.

So I guess that's why I'm saying these are our definitions and how we see it.

And most of our friends, I would.

Say, yeah, like, I know what drove you nuts about the Mormon situation is like they were getting their terminology all wrong.

They also thought it was some like, risque thing.

Like they were the first ones to ever try it.

Magazine, the Swinging Scandal.

She, they, they, she even said they said they got together with their girlfriends and were making out with the girlfriends in front of the husbands.

Like, they didn't.

That's not swinging right now whether, now whether it ended up going further or we don't.

We weren't behind closed doors.

Right.

It wasn't with them.

We do know it got emotional for them, which we'll touch on here.

Yeah.

Because she ended up cheating on her then husband with the girl's partner or catching feelings for him.

Right.

And that's really the basis of, the basis of it, of this, of this episode is that's not swinging.

You're not catching emotions.

So let, let's go into some of these definitions.

Right.

Because, Right.

Because that's where we want to really draw the lines, at least in our experience.

So we, in fact, just to touch on that real quick too, there is even that Rolling Stone article.

Yes.

Where they asked actual swingers in the lifestyle and that was one of the things that they were really upset about as well as we were, is that.

Well, I mean, we don't get upset.

Well, I guess you get, you get.

Kind of get more nutty than you do.

Yeah.

No, but I, I do get it because they, they.

The Rolling Stone article was basically, it was the same like these real swingers were saying, like, no, this is just not what it's swinging.

Right.

It's not what it's about.

So to us, we've always defined swinging as casual sex with no emotions.

Correct?

Yes.

Like, I'm not catching feelings.

Everybody else to me is just a vehicle.

Like, I don't want to say a vehicle, but like a toy.

Yeah.

For our excitement, for our reconnection after.

Exactly.

And that even goes into now again, to each their own.

Of course, whenever we say.

I know whenever you say to each your own, teach their own, you mean, you really mean our way is the best way.

But that even goes to like I, I hear a lot of like on Tick Tock and drives me nuts.

Right.

But there's a lot of so called experts that they still are even if they are just casual sex, no emotions.

They, they want to DM people, they want to email people that they want to get to know you and make a connection.

I need to know I'm connected to, to that person we have.

I just need to know I'm attracted to them.

Right.

Or the sit or the situation or.

The attracted to the situation and what's going to happen in the situation.

But I don't need to be connected to you.

Now let me take a step back.

I mean I don't want, if I sent you a weirdo, obviously that's not happening because you, your, your spidey senses should be keeping you in check, I guess you could say.

Right.

But I'll take a step back too because a lot of, we do have to recognize that a lot of people don't do things quite the way we do them.

Especially nowadays.

Nowadays we've been in this so long, we go to clubs, we go to events, we sometimes do our own hotel events and parties.

Yeah.

We do not get on the apps and date anyone or go out to dinner or meet people one on one.

So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.

I can get, I can even understand if you're doing that, that you would want to have some sort of connection.

But town has a club or a hotel, takeovers.

Right.

But I guess what I'm saying is that's part of our evolution which we'll get to on, on another episode.

But we don't, we just don't like that whole dating connection thing.

Now if that makes us sound cold, that's not.

And that's not really the case.

Like we have made friends or we've had, we've had lifelong friends but we, we don't need that connection.

We don't need to be emailing you.

We don't need it.

We, I don't need a connection with.

You, sex with you or to make it, you know, to make that, that, that intimate part fun.

And I think that would still be true even if we were doing the app thing and the dating thing and going out to someone is like, yeah, we could, we can maybe meet someone.

Out, have a couple drinks.

Right.

But we're not looking.

Right.

We're not.

And I mean I'm talking these people on Tick Tock stress connection constantly in their verbiage.

Well, you know, like a question will come up in their live thing and they're like.

Well, you know, I mean, we personally like to see if we're going to connect with people, talk to them for a while.

I don't need to talk to them for a while either.

Yeah, we don't care.

I don't.

I don't have that much time on my.

Like, I don't want to do that.

Yeah.

And that's why we end up going to events or clubs because it's whatever.

Spontaneous in the moment.

Spontaneous.

How hot is that?

Like, that's going to be fun.

Well, and also, you're not wasting an evening.

I don't need.

Not only just an evening, but potentially multiple days talking to people.

And then they flake or you plan something.

Yeah.

And then.

And then.

And then if you don't have an attraction to them or nothing's going to happen, then you've wasted a night out.

Where.

If we go to the club, even if it.

Even if we're going to make our own fun.

Even if it's just us.

Yeah.

We'll do what.

We'll do our own thing.

So there's that.

So that's.

That's basically what we do and what we define swinging as.

And then that's our lane.

That's our lane, for sure.

Yeah.

And then the other thing, I think always gets kind of a weird or.

I think.

So here's one where we may not technically be correct on the definition because there's blurred lines.

But when people say open relationships, that kind of bugs me as well, because are we technically in an open relationship?

Maybe you could call it that.

Because we do.

Obviously we're not monogamous and we have sex with other partners.

But when I think of open relationships, I think of like dating others.

I think of dating others and I think of like.

So if somebody hit me up last minute and I didn't run it by you, I can just go and do what I wanted to do.

Right.

There's.

Without checking.

And again, we may not considered an open.

The relationship in my mind.

Right.

We may not be totally.

And then I just tell you about it later.

Like, I don't.

I mean, yeah, we may.

We may not be correct on that, but it seems like there's less boundaries or.

Or maybe not less boundaries, but that's.

That's decided upon ahead of time when you're in an open relationship that you can go do what you want or it's more with dating in mind.

Yeah.

So I think you're right on there.

We do not do any of that either.

I mean, like we said, we don't.

We don't look to date or make these long, ongoing connections.

No, I kind of.

I think we run everything by each other, that's for sure.

Yeah.

And then I think the.

Around, like, you know, you're not going out to do something.

Something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think.

And if there is something established, like, you know, one of our.

One of my kinks is, like, because it's out of character for you and you haven't ever done this, so, I don't know.

In all these years.

Right.

But it would be hot for me if you did do something without telling me in, like, in whatever.

I don't know what situation that would even happen.

Never had that situation.

Only because that's hot to me.

But we've established those rules and boundaries ahead of time where, you know, you could.

You could do that and it would be super hot for me.

And this is where rules are big.

Right.

In communication and boundaries are big.

I know I can't do the same thing.

Just because you're not wired that way.

You're.

You'd be like, I'd have to.

Right.

I'd have to text you ahead of.

Time and not out of a jealousy thing.

Like, I.

I want to know.

Yeah.

I'm like a curious cat.

Like, please tell me everything.

Yeah.

And then I think, I guess the next step up from that is the polyamory, which is the.

The emotional kind of actual romantic relationships with multiple people.

Yeah.

I just.

I mean, again, there's going to be.

Right.

There's going to be poly people that come for us because.

Glad it works for you.

Glad it works for you.

Six times out of ten, I don't know.

I.

I don't even know what the odds are.

Not even that high.

All the ones we've seen have not worked out.

I.

That's just my take on it.

Yeah.

We've seen them in the.

However long we've been doing this.

22 years.

22 years.

Yeah.

So say 20 plus.

I'm glad you did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, we'll get into that here in a minute in terms of some poly stories, but for us, it's.

Romantic relationships with multiple people.

Yeah.

So for us, it's no dating, no romance, no catching feelings, no falling in love, Just great sex.

A vehicle for our excitement, our stories, our reconnection.

Yeah.

Your big thing is the reconnection.

Yeah.

Let's get into some of our experiences.

Well, first off, the t.

I hate using tv.

Well.

Because how.

Let's Be real society or Hollywood has put such a label on this world of ours.

I think when you watch shows like Sister Wives or whatever, this new tlc, what's it called?

Poly Family.

Poly Family.

As soon as I saw it, I was like, you've got to be freaking kidding me.

People think, oh, look, it's a bunch of swingers married with each other.

No, that's not what it is.

Well, and it's also kind of funny to think about that they only really are portraying the relationship side of it.

The.

The polyamorous or polygamy side of it.

Yes.

I don't.

And I don't.

Was religious and I don't.

For religious reasons, supposedly.

And I think that that in some ways is much easier for society to accept.

Like, okay.

Even though I don't agree with that or never would do that, it's still a relationship style, I guess, where.

Right.

I don't know if people just aren't ready for, like, yeah, we just have casual sex with other people and we don't give a.

Like, there's.

I don't.

I don't know if people really would, you know that.

I think that maybe the such a weird thing.

It's because.

And really, I would.

I don't know.

My personal point of view is I.

I dig our side way better than that.

I love you.

I don't want you loving anybody else.

Right.

Or do they.

You want to have sex with somebody else, that's fine.

That's.

That's not your brain.

That's your, like.

I mean, it's the feeling maybe, but it's not love.

And that still comes back to us.

Sexual feel.

It still comes back to us in the end anyhow.

And so I don't know.

I mean, what do you think that is?

Do you think it is like, they're not ready for it, or do you think they just don't even know that?

That's like a whole nother side of it.

I don't think they're ready for it.

I think, I think it's very, you know, women on my side are probably considered whore, like.

Right.

So it's safer.

That's considered saintly, really.

Right.

So it's safer to be on to talk about the relationship side, like, even though it's multiple.

Yeah, that's my own firm belief.

Yeah.

Because I.

What, what cracked me up is I didn't even watch Poly Family.

I.

I only saw the trailer and I was already laughing my ass off because the dude at the end was crying like, he's Literally crying.

Yeah.

And they're talking about how he's not like.

I don't know if they're talking about.

He's like the out on the out, like, and they're trying to replace him or something.

And there's like kids involved.

And I'm just like, that's way too messy.

Like, I don't know which.

Which one's the dad of the baby.

Right.

Lady's pregnant with.

And I'm like, come on.

And poly people can come for us all.

You can come for us all you want.

It's messy.

It is messy.

And it's hard.

It's hard enough to make even a vanilla relationship last for a long time when you consider divorce rate and everything else and people being miserable, which we'll get into in another episode.

But to make multiple relationships work.

I mean, look at freaking sister wives.

Cody.

Yeah.

Come on.

That dude.

And they.

And I think they.

I.

And this is another thing that may be controversial, but I think they hide it under religious purposes or whatever.

It's all, to me, the king at.

The top of a pedestal with all these women worshiping him.

And once they snapped out of it, literally and started realizing, oh, these are jealous feelings I'm feeling.

Yeah.

I don't like this new young wife that came in.

Right.

That.

And that's where you could tell it was all downhill from there world.

He would refer to Robin as his world.

Now, we watched that show from the beginning, but we could see it from a mile away because there were two things going on.

Not only was the jealousy, but also how difficult it was to maintain relationships with four different wives and families.

And going over this person's house this time.

And the other woman feeling like, well, you're not over at my house.

One wife was getting lonely because.

And so she ends up getting catfished on the Internet because she's out there searching for her thing now.

Right.

It's like.

Like the whole thing was a train wreck from the get go.

Yeah.

It just doesn't.

It's just the.

The chances of that working out long term.

And.

And you could argue like, oh, well, they did make it work for a long time.

But my point is not really.

When you.

When you watch that show from the beginning, there were already cracks in.

Christine and Janelle admit that even in the beginning.

Well, before Robin ever came along, they didn't get along when they lived in their very first house together.

Yeah.

Because they were all on top of each other and you could hear things in another room.

And it was hard for Cody to separate, you know, things or whatever.

That is so messy.

Yeah.

It just so pissed.

It never seemed sustainable to us.

I remember asking you one time, this is the comedy in our relationship.

You want another wife.

And you were like, hell, no.

Why on earth would I do that to myself?

Yeah.

More wife, more kids.

Ew.

You're like.

You're, like, disgusted that I even asked you the question.

Yeah.

Any emotions?

Like you.

That's why you never have to worry about me.

Like, I'm like, no, I'm good with what we do and the excitement we get out of it and the fact that I can have my cake and eat it too.

I guess.

I know that sounds horrible, but same for you, right?

Like, you don't.

We don't have to.

I don't need no baby mamas.

Yeah.

It's just emotion.

And, you know, I think the reason too is like, people can argue all they want about it, but human nature is real.

Like the jealousy, insecurity, comparison to your other.

Yeah.

To other people that are.

You're going to have a relate.

You know, a sister, wife or whatever the case may be.

Yeah.

That's just never going to go away.

You're.

You're all.

If somebody's gonna say, oh, you need to do this with your kid, like, like, then it starts stepping into those boundaries.

Right.

You know, like, hold up.

Yeah.

I mean, and we've seen it in our.

We.

We've experienced it as well with plenty of people that we have been friends with, but one in particular.

It was.

It was their second marriage, both of them.

Correct.

Which already gives you a lower chance of survival.

Yeah.

What's funny about this guy too, is he was typical, perfect Facebook, like, oh, you're my heart.

You're my whole world.

Okay.

I mean, as soon as we've been together and they were just swingers for.

Like a long time.

And I'm not saying we don't put.

We don't put things on social media every once in a while, anniversaries or whatever.

This was on the daily and on the hour.

Right.

And we've been together almost 30 years.

You don't need, like, anytime someone does that, you.

That's a red.

Tell me I'm your world.

Every minute.

That's a red flag.

We were just like, okay, this dude right then.

So they used to come to the club and we always thought they were just normal swingers.

Right then we were.

We had moved away, came back to the home club and visited and found out that they brought in a.

Another woman.

Right.

A Poly relationship.

Yeah.

And this was like full go.

Like she lived with them to go on vacations, the whole bit, and it just imploded.

He squeezed out the original.

Yeah, that's exactly what he did.

He just.

He wanted to be just with the.

And that's why I call bullshit on a lot of this, I guess, is what from.

Because we've seen a lot of that happen in our experience where if I don't agree with it, no matter what.

But I think you'll.

I just want to talk out loud and see what you'll.

You'll know where I'm going.

I don't agree with it at all.

But if you were just going to be poly and be like, that's what I want to do, and you're living by those rules, Great.

Right.

I always feel like it's a mask for something.

It's.

It's an ulterior motive or you're going to have another agenda.

Right.

I'm not saying he intended to do this, but what I'm saying is eventually the agenda became, oh, I like this woman much better.

You have feelings.

You got feelings and emotions involved.

And now it's like, I want to be with this woman.

So you weren't about poly.

You weren't about having multiple relationships.

Exactly.

You were trading in your car, you.

Which I think, to me, per.

I guess where I get upset about this is I think that's a manipulation.

Oh, I do too.

I think it's a very narcissistic move.

Right.

Because I think what that says is like, I.

I veiled this under Polly so that I could basically try this woman out while under your nose.

And I know this stuff may sound harsh because we could be totally wrong, but I call it like I see it.

And I know you do all the time.

Like, that's how I saw that situation.

Literally how I read it.

And then once that relationship became the main relationship or he fell for that woman, the original wife is out.

I mean, she got the house at least.

Yeah, well, like, I mean, even with.

Okay, so even if you watch how this whole Sister Wives thing played out, that's what Cody is doing right now.

He's backtracking, trying to cover his.

His thing, saying, I tried to make all these work.

I did this, I did that.

You know, it's everybody else's fault, not Cody's fault.

And he did all this and he's trying to leave these chicks holding the bag.

Dude, you created all this.

Well, and then he only concentrated on that last life, and now you're saying to her, well, let's just be monogamous.

And she's saying, well, that's not kind of why I got it.

Well, that's what I.

She's in it for the religious part, you know, Like, I.

At least that's what I kind of noticed.

Right.

Recently.

I was just gonna say, I mean.

They'Re gonna be monogamous now.

I don't think she's leaving them.

But I.

No, I was gonna say the same thing.

He literally said that.

So it's like, that always makes me question, like, well, if you were all about this from a religious point of view, and this is what you thought the calling should be.

Right.

Why would you ever make the comment that, oh, well, I guess we should just be monogamous now?

You're full of shit.

Right?

That's the.

That's the part I have a problem with.

If you're gonna be about it, be about it.

And I think one thing to stress is, like, if it's a true poly relationship, they're not hooking up together.

So it's not.

The two wives are getting it on with the husband.

That would be in some guy's wildest dreams.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't.

From what I understand is he's with the one wife one night.

He's with another wife another night and another wife another night.

He's not.

He's not getting them all in the same room and, you know, having.

Right.

And this is where we could be wrong on our definitions.

They did something freaky or put that.

On tv or maybe there's a difference between polygamy and polyam.

Like, I don't.

I don't.

Again, I don't care.

Whatever it is.

I just know I'm not getting connected with anybody else.

Right.

Any type of emotions.

Sorry.

You're not going on vacation with somebody else, having kids with somebody else.

We're not married.

Having a.

A fake wedding ceremony.

Right.

Those ones get me to, like.

I.

I just.

We're not doing it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Emotions are out either way that we don't.

What?

That's why we said at the beginning, we're not experts on all the.

You can.

You can grill us on the exact definitions.

It doesn't matter if you.

If you got emotion, even if you're just swinging.

And like we said, you're trying to connect with people and get to know them.

Come on, Red Flag City.

I'm not doing it.

Okay.

So I think we'll end it with Red Flag City.

So, yeah, that everybody else, we've gone.

We've gone longer than normal on this episode because we started on our rants.

But this guy.

Yeah.

I mean, this is basically when I say, kind of what brought us into, like, really wanting to delve in and dive in and talk about this were these exact situations.

They kind of had me, like, going, but that's not what swinging is.

And then you hear people go, oh, they're swingers.

Well, how do you know they're swingers?

Well, because they have a girlfriend.

Okay.

So that's not.

That's not a swinger.

You know what I mean?

Or you hear these people on.

Or thruffles or.

Yeah, they're going live and they're talking and, and.

And people.

They're giving people advice and I'm going, these are people that should not be giving me advice.

Yeah, so.

So if you were confused about all the non monogamy labels, maybe we didn't completely clear it up or.

Or give you the exact.

All we're telling you is, like, the things that we've seen freaking blow up.

So if you don't want to blow up your shit, this is.

This was the episode really for you?

Yes.

All right, we'll see you next time.

Bye.

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We'd love to help you redefine couple goals through Non Monogamy without the Mess.

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