Spice Without the Swap

Think the only way to spice up your sex life is to swap partners?

Think again.

Today we're talking voyeurism, exhibitionism, insane room play, all the hot non monogamy adjacent fun without ever crossing into full swap territory.

Welcome to Not Swinging, a raw, real look at modern relationships.

I'm Dave Arena.

And I'm Victoria Arena.

We've been together nearly 30 years, married over 24 and swinging for more than 22.

Starting this podcast now because for too long, fear kept us from living auth from being open about who we are and what our relationship actually looks like.

Maybe this is our modern day scarlet.

Letter, but we're here to be both the example and the invitation to help others own their desires and question the scripts we've all been handed.

What's broken in today's relationships?

Is monogamy even natural for humans?

And could the secret to a relationship that doesn't drain your soul be owning other people?

This show explores how love, sex and identity often buckle under the weight of society societal expectations, especially monogamy.

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Okay, so today will be a great episode for those of you that aren't sure you really want to throw yourselves right into the full swap thing.

Or maybe you'll never true want to do full swap or could never picture yourself doing full swap, but it doesn't mean you.

You can't have fun and there aren't other things you can do to spice things up.

That's very true.

I think we're experts on this subject matter because just of the way we play, like we hardly ever play behind closed doors, really hardly ever.

You know what?

I think I'm gonna just get this out of the way.

I think the only time we ever play with a closed door is when we reach the time limit and they're like, you have like 15 minutes and you guys got to be out of here, you know, like, whatever.

Oh, and we don't want any distractions.

And we don't want any distractions because.

Because they could throw off the adhd, which we've talked about in previous episodes, and whatever.

So we'll just close it for.

Because we know it's just going to be just us.

Yeah, there's not enough time to do anything else.

We're just trying to finish.

Or the other scenario is because of the other party.

Like if it's another couple or something and they aren't comfortable playing the open, you know.

Right.

But yeah, so.

So I Guess we're experts in terms of, like, what it's like to be playing to do things in the open or.

Not that it has to be in the open.

Maybe.

Maybe I'm.

How do I put this?

Let's just say we've had a lot of.

We've counseled a lot of couples on this exact thing.

Like, what can you do if you're not ready for that full swap.

Swap step, or if you really don't want to do that.

What types of things?

Ready to see her with someone.

She's not ready to see him with someone.

We're not ready to do any of that.

And what I'm saying is we've facilitated that a lot of times because of how we play or because we don't care if you're watching us or.

Or whatever.

Whatever the case may be.

I mean, just start off with, like, one of the definitions.

I mean, I think that's probably pretty.

This is kind of.

Probably one of those ones where we gotta.

You know, you hit point A, this one, Point B, this one.

These are the thing.

These.

These, you know, four or five things are what.

You know.

Yeah.

So I think.

I think what starts off I.

In my opinion, where most people start, especially if they're in at an event or a club where.

Club party.

They don't really know what they want to do.

They're not comfortable yet.

Is voyeurism.

I think that's where it usually starts.

Yeah.

And a lot of times that's just what people are into.

Oh.

At full stop.

All their game.

You know, go for it.

Yeah.

But I'm.

I think we're talking about mostly people that aren't sure what they want to do or they're trying to dip their toe in.

Right.

I think voyeurism is a great place to start, which is watching others play.

It's no different than turning on the porn at home that you guys have been doing for however many months.

Yeah.

But now it's just live in front of you.

Yeah.

You joke all the time that it's live porn, basically.

Which is what it is.

Yeah.

So in the club environment especially, there are rooms that are designed for voyeurism, whether it's a.

Sometimes it's a wide open group room where you can just stand around and watch.

Sometimes it's a closed room with a window that is built in where someone can watch from the outside.

Where you're watching through the window.

Yeah.

Did I.

Kind of cool, right?

Yeah.

Right.

It's.

And that's.

That's nicer.

Too.

If you don't really want to be in that group room environment where, you know, even though if you're not doing anything, you're kind of just right there in the action, sometimes that's even a little too much for people.

Right?

Yeah.

And then we've always said, there's the room with the chain.

Yeah.

Your private room.

So private room, shut the door, open the door, put up the chain, or put down the chain, allows them to come in and watch inside your room, but they still have to ask permission.

So sometimes it's kind of.

I don't know.

Some people might think it's creepy, some people might think it's cool.

But to have somebody actually come into your room with your permission and watch you from a corner, you know, kind of hot.

Yeah.

And.

Or could be kind of hot.

Yeah.

And so you can watch, like you said, on the other side of the chain, you can go into a room and watch if the door's open.

You could watch through a window room if they have it, or any kind of group room or areas where just people are out in the open.

Sometimes that's in the bar area.

Right.

So sometimes you see things without necessarily wanting to see them.

We've had couples actually ask us at our door.

She's like, can I come in and sit on the bed and just watch?

And we're like, yeah, totally fine with us.

Sometimes something leads to something else.

Sometimes they're literally just there watching.

And so voyeurism, I think, is.

Is a really good start in terms of just making that connection with your partner, seeing what you guys like, what excites you by watching others.

Right.

You're going to be talking about that for, like, the next week.

Absolutely, for sure.

And I think then the other side to that is the exhibitionism.

Yes.

So that's where you're being watched, which obviously is a little bit more.

How do you put it?

Maybe a bigger level of commitment.

Right.

Because you're.

That's a different animal.

Because you're going to have to be used to.

You're going to have to be comfortable enough to be watched.

But again, sometimes that's just your people's thing.

They love to be watched and that's their thing.

We're talking more through the lens of a newbie who doesn't really know, like, they might want to do something more than just watch others.

So a good way to start that without full swapping is to engage with just your partner again, in all the same scenarios we just mentioned.

Yes.

It could be in A group room where people are around.

You could be in the bar, could.

Be in the bar, could be in the room where the chain is up, the chain is down there, a window, room, whatever, what have you now.

And I'll.

I'll defer to Ms. Etiquette here and Ms. Swinger Police.

You have.

The one thing with this one, though, is since you're.

Since it's a little bit more.

I'm not coming up with the right word.

Not.

Not bigger commitment, not more invasive.

I'm not like.

I don't know the word, but it's a little bit more like.

It's so much easier just to, like you said, stand in front of a window and watch, or stand in a corner and watch, as opposed to being watched and having a lot of stuff happening around you.

That's a different animal.

So one of the things that you do have to be aware of, and I want you to speak on, is all the different things that could potentially happen and that you have to be prepared for in the open, including, you know, and I know you're big on permission, but technically, even if you're in a room with the chain down, they technically don't even have to ask permission to come in because you're basically signaling to them that you can come in and watch.

Now, they would still need permission to.

To play or to touch you, or even to touch.

Here's a great way.

So it does.

Unfortunately, exhibitionism crosses the line of stopping your play at some point, because if they ask, you've got to, like, then look up from.

You know, I might say you're giving a blow job, but you got to look up and say, I'm good, thank you.

You know, I'm.

You know.

Right.

And this is why.

This is why I'm asking you.

Because there's so many other things that could happen as opposed to.

If you're just watching.

That's.

That's a little bit that you're mostly going to be left alone.

But now you have to deal with all the things that could potentially happen.

Or you get the.

The one that says, you know, can we sit on the bed?

Yeah, absolutely.

But then maybe you start to feel a hand.

You know what I mean?

What do you do?

Is that hers?

You know, nobody.

Yeah.

And how do you react?

Yeah, how do you react to that?

So, you know, that's up to you how you react.

Right.

But you have to be prepared for more things, more variables, so many different things.

You have to be prepared for the people that walk past and think you're the zoo animal that, you know, the door is open, but they think that that's like a enclosure.

You can't.

There's like something magical there that they can't hear you.

Right.

And that's not the case.

We can hear you.

Yeah.

So you're gonna have to.

You might have to deal with comments.

You might have to deal with somebody.

Wants to direct the porn, do the script.

Right.

So there's a lot of.

There's a lot of distractions.

There's anything from small distractions that you have to be prepared for all the way up to something like someone touching without your approval or your consent.

And you do have to be prepared if you're in that open environment on how you want to handle those situations.

And that's where communication is key.

And we talk about.

Everyone talks about communication being the key in the lifestyle, and we agree with that 100%.

But how does that.

What does that look like?

It's not just about communicating your boundaries and your rules and your this and that.

It's about these type of things, like, how are we going to handle if X, Y, Z happens?

Correct.

And like you said, sometimes it can start off, sometimes it can be totally benign.

Like someone just sits on the bed or sits very close to you, more close than you wanted.

And it's like, okay, either that, A, may lead to something more that you don't want, or B, even that alone may be just too much for you.

Yes.

I always liked it.

Always kind of depends on my answer.

Sometimes he thinks I'm answering bitchy.

But I'm.

I'm not really.

I mean, I. I'm like, you know, we'll see.

Depending on what you're gonna.

Can we sit on your bed?

And I'm like, yeah, you can just watch that.

Fine.

Yeah, but I said, you can just watch.

That's fine with me.

Right.

Or fine with us.

Or if it's someone that's an absolute, like, no.

Or it's someone like.

I'm thinking of scenarios with you specifically, and not everybody's like this, but there, There may be a, like, say a single guy that you're just annoyed by based on what you've seen him do.

Right.

Or where he's been.

You're not even going to allow that just because you're annoyed and you're like, that's.

I. I don't even want you sitting next to me.

Next to me.

So then I.

So it's dependent on.

I usually use the phrase, no, we're good.

Yeah.

And then if you have to get more forceful.

It'll increase, keep consistently, which will happen too.

So you've got to, You've got to be prepared.

One guy that just keeps hanging around, keeps hanging around thinking, like, if they're in the throws, I'll.

I'll push it again.

I said we were good.

Yeah.

In fact, that's when it becomes a little bitchy.

In fact, there's time, there's.

It doesn't happen much because you take care of yourself and you are very vocal and very.

You have no problems taking care of yourself.

But there has been times where I've even had to jump in, where you've literally told someone, like, you've gotten past the no, I'm good stage.

And you're like, I'm not interested.

I've told you this.

And then that person will still come around.

And then I have to get involved and say, dude, she.

I literally heard her tell you she's not interested.

Why are.

And why.

And we've always said this, we always joke about this.

Not only is it no is no, but why would you want to keep wasting your time of your night that you're out and you've spent all this.

Money on somebody who said they're just not interested?

Right.

And you keep coming around.

Yeah.

And we don't want to make this episode about that.

But what we're making it.

What we're saying is these are all of the scenarios when you start playing.

Playing like that.

Even if.

When you don't want to swap with anyone or you've got to be prepared if you're going to.

I think one of my favorite replies of all, and this is probably one that you don't like, is when they're trying to direct the porn from our doorway.

And I go, I don't take requests.

Yeah, that's where you get your bitching most.

Bitching.

It's such a great reply, though.

And I'm just like.

I mean, I do agree with you on those things as we've talk.

We've talked about that in other instances.

But yeah, hey, do this to her.

And I'm like, we don't take.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And a lot of times, you know, when you're.

If it's someone we're not entered.

And again, we don't want to get too involved in our situation because this is really more about if you don't have any plans on full swapping or you're not sure that you want a full swap.

Exactly.

With us, we will, we will let single guys if it's the right situation.

So you usually, when we're saying it's not interested, it's not because we don't want to do anything.

It's because we don't want to do anything with that person.

Right.

In your case, if you're just doing it for exhibitionism and you don't want to full swap, then you have to make that clear.

And a lot of times, anyone that's been around, especially if it's a single guy, which is mostly what you're going to have come up to you in, in those scenarios.

Not necessarily necessarily, but.

Yeah, but a lot of them will ask like, oh, are you playing tonight?

Do you want a third?

Do you want company?

And you would simply just, you know, say no in that case.

But again, you have to be prepared and say what you want and basically be like, oh, we're not really interested in.

In swapping or doing anything with, you know, with somebody else.

We're just into our own thing.

And then though, well, they should respect that.

They have to respect that or else, you know, you can get.

You can get booted.

Right, get booted.

But again, just some things to be aware of.

If exhibitionism is like how you're going to kind of dip your toes.

Dip your toes and get your excitement without full swapping, I think the next thing, which we've done a lot and a lot of times is same room play.

And that's another icebreaker that you like as a.

Like, you have several icebreakers.

If you're social, you'll be like, oh, you want to have shots.

You know, all that.

When it comes to play, if, you know, someone is really apprehensive and really just not.

Then you will offer, like, hey, we can just same room play like nobody.

Yeah.

No strings attached.

If you, you know, we're willing to share the bed, you know, that type of thing.

And we've even had people ask that, like, can we use this half of the bed or can we join on the bed and not do anything?

And that's fine.

So that's another way of really heightening that excitement is where you're in the room, same play, but with only your partner.

So we want to make that clear so you're.

There is no, you know, there, there is no touching.

There is no.

I mean, we'll get into the escalation of that, into soft swap in a little bit, but in this scenario, you're literally just same room with your own partner, no touching.

You're just watching.

No, you're, you're Doing your thing and they're doing their thing.

Right.

And that's.

That's all it is.

Yeah.

And then probably the, the next level to that, like I just said, is the soft swap.

That does involve some things, but that's.

Just even not all those.

Sometimes.

Sometimes a guy is with his woman on your bed and, you know, it started off that way, and then she reaches over and, you know, say, rubs Dave's head, then Dave reaches over and touches her breast.

You know what I mean?

And, you know, with, with looking at the guy for permission, like, you know, that type of thing.

And that's literally all that happened.

She's rubbing Dave's head or chest and he's rubbing her boob or, you know, her shoulder and things like that while she's getting, you know, done from her man.

It's just another touch, another sensory to add to the mitt.

Yeah.

And I included sauce swap just because, again, I think it's another way to kind of get almost to that point.

But you're still not full swapping.

And maybe we should define too, because again, I think sometimes we were so used to this that even the simple terms we don't, people may not understand.

Do you want to?

No, you do it.

Okay.

So full swap is when you are having sexual intercourse with another person's partner.

Yeah.

You're, you know, genitals inside genitals.

Correct.

Soft swap could be anything from like what you described, where it's just feeling and touching all the way up to really probably oral.

Right.

I would.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so that's an area where you can evolve.

Right.

You can.

You don't have to do that.

That's a wide spectrum, I guess, is what I'm trying to say of things.

Yeah.

But that's another way, though, that you can explore and take things kind of further and further until you feel like you're not comfortable with something.

Or again, if you want to, if you're comfortable with all of the above, except for the intercourse, then you can explore that whole ladder of possibilities in.

You can actually like.

Like say what your rules are, say what you're interested in.

And if it's a couple that's respecting, you know, the fact that you're new or you're.

This is what your interests are, they're going to be totally fine with it.

Yeah.

And I, I don't know.

I've never gone into anything, and maybe this is just our philosophy in general and being in this so long, we never go with any expectations of what, what may happen.

And so I think that that helps us even with these situations, because we're all always will find something hot.

So even if it's like a new couple, that was very apprehensive, but we're like, oh, we got to at least play in the same room.

And even though we'd never touched them, never.

But we got to watch them do their thing.

They got excitement out of it.

We've had so many situations like that where they thought that was just so hot.

And we made their night just because they had some sort of experience, even though they never had to do anything outside of their partnership.

Yeah.

Which I think is cool, too.

Weeks ago, we went to a club, and it was couples only, and not my.

Particularly my favorite type of night, but, you know, made the most of it.

We were on.

We were in a room, and this really beautiful woman just stood there and watched us the entire time.

And got, like, super close, too.

Right by the bed.

Right up against the bed.

Like, never said a word.

She just voyeur'd the entire time.

And I thought it was, like, so hot.

Like, I thought it was super hot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we.

And.

And I think your main point in closing this episode out is that, first of all, you cannot.

You don't want to push any boundaries that you're not ready for.

So if you.

If you're not ready for full swap, or you may never want to do full swap, and you kind of know that these are all ways that you can really still have an exciting time and put some spark in.

In your relationship and not have to do that.

And the other great point that you made, too, is the communication.

Like, you have to be.

You have to be in tight communication with your partner on what's allowed, what's not allowed, what you like, what you don't like.

But also do not be afraid to communicate that with someone else, whether it's a single person or a couple.

And if they're not into that, they're not into that.

Right.

I mean, we say that all the time.

Like, hey, if you're.

You know, there's even times where you.

You may not.

You may not be in the mood, or you may not not.

Not in the mood, but.

Or you may be like, yeah, I don't want to have sex with that person.

But you might even say, like, oh, well, you can jack off on my ass.

Or you could like, you.

Or you get.

You know, you never know.

Well, you never.

But the point is, you will communicate that.

Yes.

You will say, this is what I'm into tonight or with you.

I may be into something different with the next person that comes along, but with you, you know, so you can't be afraid to communicate with whoever you're trying to partner with.

You know that this is all you're really into, or this is as far as you want to go.

And are you okay with that?

You got to be okay with saying what you want.

And if somebody doesn't shit, then that's fine.

Just move on.

There will be somebody that will.

Yeah.

So any closing thoughts on this one?

Nope.

Okay, we'll see you next time.

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