From Overlooked to Overbooked in the Lifestyle

Ever grow up feeling like nobody gave you a second look?

You were always the best friend.

Today we're talking about going from overlooked to overbooked in the lifestyle.

Welcome to Come Out Swinging, a raw.

Real look at modern relationships.

I'm Dave Arena.

And I'm Victoria Arena.

We've been together nearly 30 years, married over 24, and swinging for more than 22.

Starting this podcast now because for too long, fear kept us from living authentically, from being open about who we are and what our relationship actually looks like.

Maybe this is our modern day scarlet.

Letter, but we're here to be both the example and the invitation to help others own their desires and question the scripts we've all been handed.

What's broken in today's relationships?

Is monogamy even natural for humans?

And could the secret to a relationship that doesn't drain your soul be owning other people?

This show explores how love, sex, and identity often buckle under the weight of societal expectations, especially monogamy sex.

Subscribe to Coming Out Swinging, the podcast that redefines couple goals straight from the motherfucking OGs.

Okay, so today's episode is gonna be pretty personal.

I would say.

Not.

Not that others can't relate to what we may talk about today, but it's gonna be pretty specific.

True.

I mean, very much our kind of another version of our story.

But like growing up.

Yeah.

And how that affected us in terms.

Of being in the lifestyle today.

Right.

So both of similar background in terms of how we grew up.

We both.

And we did not know each other.

Right.

You should be clear about that.

Yeah.

But we were both, I guess you could call, for lack of a better term, the fat kid, which everyone knows has issues growing up, especially when you're of a certain age.

And that's how they were.

They didn't, you know, that.

That.

I mean, let's be real.

I was the fat chick, the fat friend.

Yeah.

And I was.

I was the same.

And, well, not the fat chick.

But.

So I want to get into a little bit of.

Well, and here's the other thing too, is that we also were very.

In our social lives, especially in high school and beyond.

We really had a lot of good friends that were the opposite sex.

Yeah.

I. I mean, I did.

I had a lot of guy friends.

Yeah.

And so.

And that was kind of my.

My experience as well, where I had a lot.

A lot of close girl.

And even sometimes where I may have wanted more.

And whether it was mutual or not, I would never know because I never.

I still think they probably hit on you and it went over your head.

Yeah, I never made any moves or never.

Well, and I think because too when I got into like, I was always in the friend zone type of thing.

But I also.

And I don't know if your experience is the same with guys because guys may have been different and I'm kind of interested to hear your perspective on this.

But when you're a guy who is good friends with girls and you talk to them on the phone all the time or what have you, you always got the complaints about guys that hit on them or guys they didn't want, like they thought were creepy or so you never wanted to be that guy that they're talking about.

So I think for me it just made me shut down completely where I would never entertain the thought of hitting on them or taking it or even asking to go to the next level.

Yeah.

And I mean, I kind of agree in that category as well, because what would happen with me is that, you know, you'd have the one guy and maybe you're driving that guy home at night or something and then you.

It becomes is, you know, would they make a move probably knowing guys.

You know what I mean?

But God forbid that rumor got out, you know, you made out with the.

The fat chick.

Right.

Fat friend.

Yeah, there was.

I mean, especially at that age where we cared.

Cared a lot about what people thought.

So.

Yeah.

And I think that it really kind of warps your sense of whatever.

I don't even know, you know, your, I guess the confidence levels.

Like I.

Because I never, not only did I never have a girlfriend, never really dated anyone, never went to dances, like none of that kind of stuff.

I recognize a lot of that was just my own insecurities and never again putting myself out there or, or the fear of rejection and never really asking.

Right.

Which is kind of what we're going to be talking about.

Which is interesting how it flips the script.

Yeah.

And also not only how it's different, but also there are still some of.

There's some of that residual stuff all the time and you know, we'll get into that.

But you, you, You've seen that even with me and the way I interact in the lifestyle.

That's what's great about it is that I have you as like we always joke like you're the best wingman.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I mean I'm great there as far as that's.

That all goes.

But I even still, still to this day struggle with.

Every once in a while I'm like, yeah, but I'm not hurt.

Why are they interested in us?

You know, something.

Something still can fuck with your head a little bit somewhere along the way.

Yeah, I think that you are.

You're not.

I'm always amazed by your confidence level in terms of you will go up to anyone and talk to anyone and you even have gotten.

Not gotten.

You are really confident when it comes to even asking someone or just starting a convers or even asking if they want to play or what have you.

Like you.

You didn't take that part of it with you or if that even was a part of it growing up.

Maybe you were different than I was.

Social game is really good.

Yeah.

You're like, I'm always amazed by you by just the fact that like you have no.

You really don't care if someone.

You don't have the fear of rejection like I do is what I'm trying to say.

Do.

You are more.

And you just alluded to this.

You are more of the still the self conscious type.

That's where your insecurities, your insecurities come into play with your own.

It's not.

Which is a weird kind of.

Some people may be confused.

Well, like what's the difference?

And it is kind of a fine line of like what is what exactly.

Because you, you will.

You are self conscious about like you're not someone that's just gonna go wide open naked.

Like, here's my body.

Like you're you.

You still have.

That's a big key factor here for me.

One of the things that plays with my confidence on a pro side of this, like a, you know, if you take in pros and cons is that I put the whole package together.

I work very hard on the way I look when I go in there.

It's not a sloppy mess.

You know, I take my time in finding dresses that compliment me and are hot.

And I, you know, make sure the girls are up, they're not sagging to my knees.

I wear heels no matter what.

And you want to leave something to the imagination.

I'm a makeup artist, so my makeup's always on point.

My hair always looks good.

I mean, you know, always have a good hair day, but you can still get there.

And you know, the whole package is put together when I'm walking into a club.

So that part I know.

I'm not like this sloppy mess out there.

Yeah.

And you also know you have self awareness where you're like, I'm not going to just let it all hang out.

I'm going to leave some to the imagination.

And there are still parts of me that I'm not comfortable with.

And I hate my arms.

Yeah.

And I'm the same way, in a sense.

But what's really weird about our situation is we're almost the complete opposite.

You have no problem.

You have a more self conscious problem, but you have no fear of rejection, even with your.

Which is really kind of strange when you think about it because you would think when you say someone is self conscious that you would have confidence issues, but you have confidence like in your own, like your.

I don't know how to put it.

Like your own self.

Yeah.

But you somehow have confidence and like, oh, well, like if they don't want to play, then, well, they're lost.

Right.

Like you're not.

Yeah.

You don't care about like starting a conversation or someone just dissing us or rejecting us.

I'm the opposite.

I.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not walking around completely naked either.

I kind of have that same self awareness, but I'm a little bit more comfortable.

I mean, of course, I think it's a little bit easier for guys sometimes where it's like, I don't, I don't really have too many issues about the self conscious thing.

I still do in, in some sense, but I'm huge on the fear of rejection thing.

Like, I just have never been one to go up to someone or like.

And I, I'll even cringe when you say, oh, I'm gonna go talk to them.

And I know there's times where you're like, you kind of get mad at me because you are like, well, why are you rolling your eyes at me or huffing at me or shushing me?

And I'm like.

And I've recognized that it.

And I've recognized that it's my own insecurities, it's my own issues.

It's not you, but it's just I'm cringing because I'm like, oh, what if.

They, like I always say, like, go with your second part of your thoughts.

That.

Yeah, if she didn't do this, we'd be sitting here twiddling our thumbs without a doubt.

Of all the years we've been in this, I only know one female that has come up to you by herself and talked to you when I wasn't around and hit on you and everything else.

One.

Yeah.

And that was the one that I sent you to her hotel room.

Yeah, I, Yeah, I didn't meet her.

I didn't talk to her.

I didn't anything.

She was a single female in the club, but because I was up at the bar, she took it upon herself to come over and talk to you.

And, And I think a confident woman coming over and doing that with you also spikes your, you know, you're like, all right, I do.

You know, she, she wasn't gonna not.

Talk and I would all.

And you know me, I need.

It has to be that obvious.

And even then, sometimes it's not enough to like, it just goes over my head because I don't have that confidence at times.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's, it's just, it's interesting the way we work in that because we both grew up with kind of the same backstory, the same kind of issues, but it manifests in a little bit different ways.

Yes.

And you're right.

I mean, we would be absolutely clueless.

We, we would have, we would have had no fun in this lifestyle if we were both similar.

If it wasn't for you just being social, like, because I think, well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think because you look at all those interactions as social, first thinking, well, I'm not, I'm not looking at the rejection as like, like you're not worried about whether they want to play or not for you.

Like, you're worried just about, hey, I'm making a connection.

And if, yeah, if they don't, they don't want to talk and fight.

You know what I mean?

Like, you don't want it to be boring every time you go and you're sitting there drinking by yourself or we're dancing by ourselves, you know, whatever.

You know, girls like their girlfriends in the lifestyle, you know what I mean?

Like, meaning, like just, you know, friends they can party with.

And I'm.

My social and my, I was very social even in high school, so it's.

I don't know that the romantic side of things really made a difference to me even back then, other than I just blamed everything on being overweight, so.

But I just took that with the game.

As long as my social calendar was filled, I was like, this is great.

You know what I mean?

If they don't want to be with me, they don't want to be with me, you know, whatever.

And I think that's similar to how I look at things now, except it's.

You're right.

The self conscious really takes over.

I also think too that the landscape of just society and what's accepted and what's liked is so much different than when we grew up.

Especially for females.

Yeah.

So whether it's the Kardashian effect or whatever you want to call it, but there's been such a huge shift into curvy women and.

And, yeah.

Women who, like you get, you know, women with an ass.

Right.

Women with full tits.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And that used to be made fun of.

Or, you know, you just.

You didn't, you know, when we were growing up in our era, in high school, you.

You didn't really get the.

You didn't get the attraction of thicker girls back then.

Yeah.

And now I think there's just been a whole shift in that.

What, you know, what's attractive?

I guess.

And that's.

And that's not.

Not to say that, like, guy, there's.

All women are attractive, all shapes and sizes are attractive.

And we've seen people that are attracted to all different types.

And it doesn't mean that everybody's type is Whatever.

But I just.

I'm just saying there's a.

More.

There's definitely.

We've definitely seen over the years where not only is there a shift to curvy women, but there's even some that seek that out more.

Oh, yeah.

There's groups that just.

For that.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Or they'll put it right in their bio, like, this is what I'm looking for, a curvy woman, you know, big ass.

Yeah.

And, you know, so forth.

But, you know, the interesting thing is, is that we were not the us we are today.

We weren't it.

We weren't in this physical body when we started.

Yeah.

So a little background for people that don't know, because we might have touched on this in other episodes.

You know, we started the lifestyle and we were very heavy combined.

We were very heavy.

We were.

We were.

I mean, I. I was probably 320 plus pounds, if not more, at my heaviest.

Right.

And.

But I do want to point out that.

So I guess what I'm.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, and I think where you were going with this is that we don't want to make this all about weight loss either.

No, not at all.

Because.

Well, first of all, there's a couple different things that were going on with us in kind of our aging in reverse glow up journey or whatever you want to call it.

But when we got married, I was 27, you were 25, and I had the old man ring hair and was balding other than the ring of hair around my head.

And I looked I literally, if we looked back at our wedding pictures and people would be shocked.

Not only was I that heavy, but I looked like I was 50 something back then.

Yeah.

And so the point I'm trying to make though is we, even then though, at that weight and that look, we still had success in the lifestyle.

We had a great sex life.

And we also had a lot of success in the lifestyle to begin with.

Yes.

So it's not just about weight loss.

It's also about just having that confidence or gaining that confidence when you get into this lifestyle and you see that it is very inclusive and very open.

And then, you know, I think just for our own health and other factors, don't get me wrong, it's been better.

Better is maybe a weak word to use, but I mean, I, I just, I think we feel a lot better about ourselves in terms of confidence and looks.

Yeah.

And you know, the other thing too, that I want to point out, and this is the difference.

And I guess we're just dating ourselves with.

And I'm still considered a, I mean, I, I'm not considered, I am a plus size woman still.

It's not like it made me pin thin.

I'm not, you know.

Right, right.

Like if no one knew what you weighed before, they would still be like, that's a curvy woman or a thick woman or whatever you want to call it.

Exactly.

And I think the other thing, and I think we're just dating ourselves with everything we're talking about here is like, there's also something weird about.

Because what we're talking about here is the perception of how we grew up and how we perceived ourselves and the confidence we had in ourselves.

Yes.

With what the lifestyle has provided.

And another thing is we didn't have apps like we have now.

Right.

Where just because they weren't around and we didn't have cell phones.

Right.

So now these lifestyle apps, like you can actually get people.

We get people that message you on these apps and get to see your pictures and everything.

And that also gives you confidence and it also gives you a.

Like, that helps me, especially because of my issues with like, still not having that confidence.

And fear of rejection is like, okay, well, not that it means that something's going to happen, but at least it, you know, at least you have a way of gauging like, oh, this person's reached out.

They've already seen what we look like.

Yeah.

And that gives you a lot of confidence too.

And we didn't, we didn't have that gauge.

Growing up is What I'm trying to say, there's no way we would have known in high school if someone was really interested unless a friend told you, yo, this person likes you, or you had to step out and ask some, you know, and like I said, I never did that.

So, like, I never was able to really gauge.

Like, is it just me or is it right?

Do you get what I'm saying?

Where we, we have the technology now to be able to just get a better gauge on that stuff.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah.

Totally agree.

I think it's, you know, even when we were getting the attention before, you know, it's.

It's a great.

It's.

It's funny to see you get so much more after the fact.

So I think that part's just like a huge confidence booster as well.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

We don't want to make it about weight, but there is a part of this that was about our weight, even though we got into it before weight loss and.

But I think it helped me with weight loss.

Like, I think the more confidence I got and the more comfortable I got with myself in situations and just being in clubs and parties and things like that, I think it gave me a boost to want to be healthier and want to be, you know, on a different path.

It kind of kick started everything for me.

Yeah, it's a great point that you make too, because I've felt that too, where it's like you, you do you want to.

When you're putting yourself out there in this lifestyle.

Yeah.

You do want to have your confidence, remain high.

And the way to do that is to take care of yourself.

Exactly.

And continue down that journey of being more healthy and being, you know, presenting yourself better.

You know, whether people agree with that or not, that's just part of it.

Right.

It's like you feel like, hey, we're gonna have better experiences and we're gonna feel better about ourselves the more we take care of ourselves.

So even though we had success us before, we certainly have had much better experiences, you know, as we've taken care of ourselves.

And, you know, the other thing too is it's not all roses and rainbows either, because there.

There are a lot of mind games and mixed messages because for the most part, the lifestyle is very inclusive.

And you do.

We do get a lot of compliments.

Oh, you guys look great.

Even if they find out our age, they're like, oh, wow, like we never expected.

Right.

You to be that age.

Or we.

Which really feeds my ego.

Well, especially now that we, you know, full disclosure, we have a grandchild now that's a little over a year old, so people are like, whoa.

Like, never.

Never.

Like, oh, you have kids.

Oh, that's so cute.

And I'm like, yeah, they're.

They're adults.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But those old insecurities do come creeping back, because you will still have those comments every once in a while.

And we've brought this up in previous episodes where it's like, you know, someone will walk by and be like, oh, she's too thick, or, you know, whatever, or you still get.

So it kind of.

It brings you right back to your childhood, is what I'm saying.

Yeah, definitely.

Because, I mean, growing up with my childhood, I mean, if I heard I had a penny for every time somebody said, you're really pretty, but you'd be so much prettier if you lost weight.

Yeah.

And all those.

You can imagine.

Like, I had that the whole, you know, growing up, and now just get the one person to walk.

She's.

She's too thick.

And that's what's crazy about it.

Right?

It could be the one per, like, so you can hear you're hot 40 million times.

Yeah.

And it takes.

And mostly.

And let's.

Let's face it, most of the comments are positive, and most guys are.

Especially when it comes to, like, the female.

Like, most guys are fawning over you and be like, oh, you're so hot.

Yeah.

Like, I love your Whatever, your assets.

And then it only takes that one.

Yeah.

And you know what?

It's always the one that is the girl that Dave is checking out from a couple.

And I'm like, yeah, not them.

Right.

Yeah.

And I'm like, sorry.

You know, and it.

It kind of kills that.

I don't want to say competitive, but I do have a competitive streak.

There is something in me that says I can, you know, I. I can do just as well in this lifestyle as, you know, the bar, the Barbie, I guess, so to speak.

If you want to put it in a category, I think when, like, kind of kills that confidence a little bit or that competitive streak I have in me, because I'm like, there have been times where there is a girl in a club, and she is like, she's the it girl of the night, and a couple of guys are checking her out, and maybe one of those guys caught my eye.

I am, like, determined to make it happen.

I'm gonna get that guy.

He was looking at her, but guess what, who he's gonna end up with.

You know what I mean?

And I have a really good, skilled way socially and, you know, the way I carry myself of making it happen, I really do.

Unless it's.

And that's why I said I don't want it to be competitive or a game.

But there is.

It's.

It's sexy.

That's kind of hot, you know, and it comes with the confidence.

Yeah, for sure.

And you have that.

Like, I don't have that.

No, but you have it.

And I think.

Really?

But you love to watch it happen.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

When I can do that, you're like, I can't believe you pulled that off.

And I think the biggest takeaway for anyone listening to this, and if you're just starting out and if you, you know, not everyone is going to resonate.

Right.

These kind of issues.

But I'm sure everybody has their insecurities, whether it doesn't have to be weight or, you know, or what have you.

You really do have to focus on the positive attention, is what we're saying, and not letting those negatives drag back to that place of where you got those insecurities in the first place.

And let's face it, we all got them from childhood.

And whether.

No matter what it is.

Right.

And that one comment out of a sea of compliments will take you right back there.

But you really have to focus on the positive.

Right.

And how the confidence and playfulness and connection matter more than looks a lot of times in this thing.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And also, the lifestyle loves all flavors.

Right.

Be friendly.

Like the whole, like, mean look, mean mug thing, like, nobody wants to approach.

That no matter how high.

No, I mean, I kind of got that for a little while.

Like, I would get like, oh, we didn't know if we should talk to you guys because you kind of looked like an ice queen.

And I was like, me, I'd like the most talkative person in the world, you know?

But I knew that I had to start, like, loosening up and being even more the social that I am outside of the club.

Be more social inside of the club.

Yeah.

And like I was saying, you're dealing with so many different people, and you don't know what they like and what they don't like.

And it's all about finding the people who do love your flavor.

Right, Right.

It's like the.

The people, like, if someone doesn't, they don't.

It doesn't.

You know what I mean?

But you have a lot of those.

Right?

But there are so many people that, like, all different Types and what.

What have you.

That's what you have to focus on.

Right.

And I just think in closing, it's really ironic, I guess, that, like, the journey that we've been on from how we grew up and what kind of made us invisible and what I mean by that is like our insecurities, our weight issues, our other issues where we felt like we couldn't have romantic things or sexual.

Yeah.

Or whatever the case may be actually made.

Like, how do I put it?

It's almost like it's so different.

Yeah.

On this side of it, like, as we've matured, as we've grown older, as we've gotten the confidence of the legacy.

Society has made it different in a lot of ways.

Right.

And that's what I'm saying.

It's kind of ironic that especially for the female side of it, like, what made you invisible to guys back in the day, like, oh, I'm a little bit of a thicker chick or what have you, makes you really magnetic to a lot of people in this lifestyle that.

Like that.

Yeah.

You know, if they prefer that.

So I don't know if you have any, you know, closing thoughts on this.

I mean, I think it's just, you know, I think for people that are just getting into this, my advice is to be, you know, outgoing, be friendly.

I mean, if you're going to just sit there and sip through your straw and your shoulders are in and you're just kind of being timid, it's not going to fair you very well.

So I think, I mean, let me, let me be a little different here.

So if you're like that and people see that you're timid because maybe it's your first time there and regulars are noticing that, that's a different story.

Think about, you know, standing up straight, being a little more confident, you know, walking to the bar, laughing with the bartender.

Let them see something fun in you, and I think it will benefit you so much better because it just creates the social aspect of everything for you.

And I think that that helps.

You know, they, they, they're not going to think, oh, they're just into themselves or they're just, you know, about them.

Yeah.

Or they're not having a good time or what have you, or you just don't want to approach because you're thinking, well, maybe they're just having an off.

Night or not, like confidence, you know, being a, you know, trying to be a little outgoing or a little friendly, you know, is going to take you very far right off the bat.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, we'd love to hear from people.

Like, even if you email us.

Our email is Vic or Dave at Vic and Dave with an N V I C N d a v e.com vicordavec and dave.com and just tell us, like, what are your insecurities and especially if they're from childhood and what you're kind of carrying into this.

It would be really.

I would love to hear all kinds of feedback and give me your questions, give me something, a topic that you want us to touch on.

I mean, we've been in it forever and we'd love to answer those.

So either way.

All right, I think that's it for this one.

Yeah, that's it.

Okay, see you next time.

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